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Mustangs qualify for EP?

Yeah, if they only got half a motor....4 banger...

Don

Try the CP list, those guys know Mustangs.

http://lists.carlc.com/mailman/listinfo/cp 

Do what Steve said, then get a V8 to stuff in it and go play in CP.

 Driven the EP stang and I dont know that it will be a national car, but they are fun none the less.

Thinkkker03:

 Driven the EP stang and I dont know that it will be a national car, but they are fun none the less.

Well, lets think about this a moment.  While somewhat un-orthodox, this may not be that bad an EP weapon.   The Mustang chassis works pretty well in Prepared trim and (if you didn't know) the 2.3 is one of the most highly developed American based race motors around.  They are the "chevy small block" of 4 cylinder mini-stockers, running at local short tracks all over the country. 

Where ever you find a local short track running mini-stockers you will find a local shop that specializes in hot rodding this little motors.  They can make a lot of power with a broad torque curve. 

So there is a lot of potential there.  Can it win in September, probably not, but it could be a fun and relatively inexpensive baby pony car.

mlb67ep:

Steve, you read my mind and thats my plan.

Well, it kinda made sense once I thought about it.  The basic Mustang chassis has about anything you could think of available off the shelf.  And there is a world of existing knowledge and data out there.  You could probably pickup a good used 2.3 mini-stock motor for a grand or two. 

I think its a pretty good idea.  And the rest of EP will be standing around scratching their heads. 

As for your wheel question, 15x7 wheels are the best buy on the market right now.  Check TireRack for a range of options in the $100 each price range.  Hoosier has a 23x9.5x15 in the R35A compound that should be just the ticket.

Morgan,

I'd think that a 16x9 or 10 wheel with the small (23.5x11x16) Goodyear or Hoosier slick would work pretty well.  It seems to for the small tire CP guys.  I don't know squat about 15" slicks, but there is probably a 15" cantilever that would work also.

For suspension mods, that is easy, open up a Maximum Motorsports catalog and start ordering. :)   Stiff springs, torque arm, stiff chassis, all the simple stuff.

I agree it sounds like a fun car.

HTH,

DaveW

As I agree that the car could be fun, the current weight rules make it impossible to win.  I had looked into it for a friend and on a power course you could hold your own but a high transition course the Hondas are gonna win because they are around 500lbs lighter.  Anyways, I would suggest talking to Darrel Padberg about how to set the car up as he has won CP the last two years and runs 16x10s.  The car is already max'd out on weight so run the 10s.

 Keep us posted on your progress.

turbotoddie

In case you all overlooked it, larger, heavier, higher displacement RWD cars have won EP for the past three years.  The new surface at HPT is the great equalizer.  Small, lightweight, FWD cars just can't seem to find the grip.

-Chris <---- building a bigger, heavier, higher displacement RWD car to replace my Honda.

epcrx:

In case you all overlooked it, larger, heavier, higher displacement RWD cars have won EP for the past three years.  The new surface at HPT is the great equalizer.  Small, lightweight, FWD cars just can't seem to find the grip.

-Chris <---- building a bigger, heavier, higher displacement RWD car to replace my Honda.

Looks like EP is becoming CP light, 4 cylinder sedans with solid rear axles.  Then maybe the 4 cylinder Mustang ain't such a bad idea.

EP even sounds a little like "See Pee".  You guys could probably also make do with smaller beer guts, light beer, an afternoon tea instead of the CP beer party and Rob Foley can play the part of Dick Berger. 

Steve Hoelscher:

 
Looks like EP is becoming CP light, 4 cylinder sedans with solid rear axles.  Then maybe the 4 cylinder Mustang ain't such a bad idea.

EP even sounds a little like "See Pee".  You guys could probably also make do with smaller beer guts, light beer, an afternoon tea instead of the CP beer party and Rob Foley can play the part of Dick Berger. 

Hhhhhmmmmmnnn; Dick Berger? I don't believe I have ever bared my buttocks in public, besides making an ass out of myself at the talent show, what, about 5 years ago?  I am also making an attempt at showing up at Nationals this coming September with a 15% weight reduction of my own, since I'm the heaviest lump in the car I believe.  Why go exotic on trying to get it out of the car when it is easier to put yourself on a diet.

I'm not entirely convinced little car days are done in EP.  My rather rustic Civic was just pulled out of the garage this past year after sitting in suspended animation since 1999.  No development since back then in the late '90's, with my only focus in 2007 being to run as much low grip asphalt similar to HPT as I could find.  I only got beat by 0.204, driving my car with only about 130hp and weighing 1620lbs.  With a plenum intake I do have comparatively big torque, and that plus a set-up maximizing what mechanical grip could be obtained worked out pretty well.

I did learn a good amount of knowledge throughout last year on what direction I need to go in order to make the car faster.
 

preparedcivic:

Hhhhhmmmmmnnn; Dick Berger? I don't believe I have ever bared my buttocks in public, besides making an ass out of myself at the talent show,

Well, thank God for small miracle.

I was thinking of somebody who had been in Eee Pee a while.  Oh wait, maybe Dwayne Komush could play Dick Berger?  He's been there waaaay longer.

epcrx:

In case you all overlooked it, larger, heavier, higher displacement RWD cars have won EP for the past three years.  The new surface at HPT is the great equalizer.  Small, lightweight, FWD cars just can't seem to find the grip.

-Chris <---- building a bigger, heavier, higher displacement RWD car to replace my Honda.

I think it's a little premature to be giving up on FWD cars for EP.  Yes, a heavier rwd car won the last few years, but there are way more factors to consider.  If Nationals is always going to be held in winter conditions, then I would agree that that rwd is an advantage, since it is so hard to get heat in the rear tires on a fwd car.  Running on the fresh, negative texture surface at HPT also favors the heavier cars, but that will change as the surface evolves to a normal positive texture.  All that being said, it's not like it was a blowout or something.  I have datalogs to show that my car was capable of winning, had I put the runs together, and that was running on 20lb steelies and my way underdeveloped motor and the only one without a co-driver.  The car that still scares me is the '06 Civic.  Matt put down the fastest 2nd day run of the whole class, and they seemed to be struggling all week with the car.  If everybody wants to build EP Mustangs, have at it.  It seems like a tough place to start to me.

-Chris   

Chris Raglin:

I think it's a little premature to be giving up on FWD cars for EP.  Yes, a heavier rwd car won the last few years, but there are way more factors to consider.  If Nationals is always going to be held in winter conditions, then I would agree that that rwd is an advantage, since it is so hard to get heat in the rear tires on a fwd car.  Running on the fresh, negative texture surface at HPT also favors the heavier cars, but that will change as the surface evolves to a normal positive texture.  All that being said, it's not like it was a blowout or something.  I have datalogs to show that my car was capable of winning, had I put the runs together, and that was running on 20lb steelies and my way underdeveloped motor and the only one without a co-driver.  The car that still scares me is the '06 Civic.  Matt put down the fastest 2nd day run of the whole class, and they seemed to be struggling all week with the car.  If everybody wants to build EP Mustangs, have at it.  It seems like a tough place to start to me.

Chris, I hope you aren't taking me seriously.  No, I don't think a 2.3 Mustang is going to win EP any time soon. 

I don't dissagree with you about the surface at HPT either.  But I do wonder what Tom's RX3 could do on a grippier surface.  I also think Chris D has made a good choice for the class.   While I don't think anyone should "give up" on FWD for EP if you were starting from scratch would you choose a FWD car for EP?  FWD wouldn't be my first choice. 

It was simply my observation that Tom's RX3, the subject Mustang and Chris D's new car are all mini-CP cars.  Front engine, rear drive, solid axle.  We haven't seen much of that configuration in EP prevously.  Perhaps the smoother surface at HPT eliminates some of the drawbacks of the live axle. 

Steve,  I'm sure you know I'm not taking you seriously about the Mustang. 

 I wonder how Tom's car RX3 would do on a grippier surface too.  I wonder how much more grip it is capable of, or how much adjustability the platform offers.  From watching it, it seemed to be getting right at 100% weight transfer on the HPT surface, which would indicate that with that setup, it wouldn't benefit much from a better surface.  My car needs around 1.7g to achieve 100% weight transfer, and I was only getting around 1.4 at HPT, so I know that the setup I brought out would get faster on a better surface.  Kudos to Tom for bringing a setup that was optimized for the surface and weather conditions. 

If I were starting from scratch, I would build a Corolla.  It just seems like the right platform for the class.  It's hard to argue that a FWD car does anything better than a RWD, but the beauty of EP is that the rules allow enough fixing of the car's bad traits that they are all pretty competitive.  There are only a few RWD cars listed that would make good starting points, but there are many more FWD cars to choose from.  The RWD cars are all either really old and hard to find or priced like gold due to the Drift popularity or both.  The FWD cars are much easier to find and are more likely to be ones that have evolved from SP classes.  Pretty much any Civic can be competitive.  I think the VW's could as well.  I wouldn't even rule out a Focus or Neon as a possible contender, but they definately wouldn't be in my top five list.   

-Chris 

Chris Raglin:

 I wonder how Tom's car RX3 would do on a grippier surface too.  I wonder how much more grip it is capable of, or how much adjustability the platform offers.  From watching it, it seemed to be getting right at 100% weight transfer on the HPT surface, which would indicate that with that setup, it wouldn't benefit much from a better surface.

That appears to be an issue with the RX3.  I saw the same thing on those cars when they ran in DSP.  I haven't discussed the subject with Tom since he went to EP but I would assume that the issue could be adequately addressed within the Prepared ruleset. 

ChrisRaglin:

 

If I were starting from scratch, I would build a Corolla.  It just seems like the right platform for the class.  It's hard to argue that a FWD car does anything better than a RWD, but the beauty of EP is that the rules allow enough fixing of the car's bad traits that they are all pretty competitive.  

I too think the Corolla GTS is the car for the class.  Clearly the Honda has been successfull but, all things being equal (and they never are), I really think that fwd is not the best answer to the question.   Yes, the prepared ruleset allows you to minimize the issues but they remain issues.