SCCAForums.com

I have been contemplating for a few weeks now about the best route to take with the Mustang in order to be the most competitive...I have been running FS in the mustang since I started with auto-x, but one can only go so long before the mod bug really sets in...so my question is this, and all opinions are welcome:

 What class do you think I would be the most successful/competitive in if I were to go for the upgrade(s) and move out of FS?

My three primary choices for the near future seem to be STX, STU, or ESP? ESP seems to be where most mustang and other "pony-car" owners head with the most success, but I wonder how successful I could be running in a street touring class against smaller, lighter cars? I am thinking seriously about taking a stab at the street touring market with the mustang as it doesn't seem like something many people do and i do love a challenge...Is it worth it or is that biting off more than I can chew?

The best way to be competitive in our region is to prep your car close to the limits of your chosen class. You really need for your car to be somewhat competitive in that class as well. The best examples of this are Brian's STi, Ry's Mini, and my M3. Of these cars, in my opinion only Brian's is currently capable of winning a national championship (because it's both well-prepped and very competitive in its class).

STX will limit you to a 245mm tire on an 8" wheel. You've got a lot of car for that much tire. STU limits you to a 275mm tire and no wheel width restriction. If you go STU, you will absolutely want to be running that maximum tire width on a big enough wheel (I'd consider 10" to be the minimum). All ST classes will require some degree of emissions compatibility and will not allow for update/backdate among model years, so if that's in your plan you should probably look to Street Prepared. Street Prepared has additional allowances over Street Touring. If you don't plan to take advantage of those allowances, the main reason you'd want to run ESP is to be able to run in the street tire division locally.

So, long story even longer, if you're dead-set on moving from FS, I'd prep to STU rules and then run either STU or ESP. But be warned, if you make the class switch half-heartedly, you'll find yourself uncompetitive. When I moved from BS to STU, I did so by doing coilovers, bigger wheels and good tires, an aggressive alignment, and race seats all at once. If you don't take advantage of the allowances in a class you'll end up in the land of the uncompetitive car.
 

My "primary" idea was to run in STX with a 245/45 Azenis or B-stone equivalent for running in other regions on street tires and if money permits, getting a set of 245 Hoosier R-comps to run at MS events so that I could do both competitively...

 The stock tires on the mustang are a 235/55 "hard as a rock" pirelli so the 245 stickier compound street tire would be a big improvement over the stock tires; the stock wheels are already at the 8-in wide limit...

 As far as other mods to the car for STX, in the power dept. I was looking at doing a new, bigger intake setup and then for exhaust going with some long-tube headers and high flow cats to match the cat-back i already have, which would keep the cats with the 10-in position change limit for STX and would meet emissions requirements as well, and I am also toying with the idea of crank/alt. pullies too, but not dead set on that.

As for suspension, I plan on lowering springs (1.25-1.5"), adjustable tokico d-spec shocks/struts, bigger/stiffer front and rear sways, nice big strut brace, and an adjustable upper 3rd link...all of that should stiffen up the ride incredibly while hopefully keeping the a$$-end of the car planted to the ground...

 The only difference in the above STX setup and the STU setup would be going with 275 tires (street and a set of R-comps) on a 9 to 11" wheel...

Aside from FS, STX is definitely the cheapest way to go, but I do think you'll have a tough time being competitive with that setup in our region - there's just too much weight and too little tire. With 10-11" wheels and 275mm tires in STU at least you're giving yourself a better chance, and you could always run ESP in street tire. Whatever you do, don't skimp on wheels and tires.

Also, typical lowering springs are going to be way too soft for autocross. Stiff springs and shocks that can control them are important. This is an area where a lot of people half-ass car setup. Another is with alignment. I'm running almost 4 degrees of negative camber up front, and I personally align my car to some pretty exact specs.

My advice to make your car more fun and much more competitive:  Stay in FS for now, but prep for that class. If you decide to move up you won't have lost much, if anything. Get a big front sway bar, a cat-back exhaust, and most importantly, good tires. I'd go 245/45 since your wheel is only 8" wide. Find out what good stock-class alignment numbers are and get it aligned to them. Then show up and win because you've got a car that's competitive in its class and is well-prepped.

Stay in F/S.

If you don't already have one, get a rule book. Call me, I'll arrange to get you one.

Buy some light wheels and some Kumho's.

I have some questions about the update/backdate rules (no I don't have a rule book). Under this rule can I take my 2000 V6 mustang and put a cobra suspension on it, 8 inch wheels, and the tokico shocks that came standard on the cobra (2003-2004 models) and go back to FS class?

I currently have a Bullitt suspension from Ford and 9" wheels. Could I just go with 8" wheels and get back to FS with my current set-up?

Also in the tri-state challenge, are the awadrs for each individual classes (FS, GS, ESP, SM2, etc) or are they like we do here (open tire, street, novice)? If it's broken down into classes I would suggest that Chris take his mustang and run FS for the tri-state and see if he can't take the FS class. He has done well so far with the little experience he has.

Can Chris use the update/backdate rule and upgrade his suspension with a Ford GT 500 set-up? I think I need a rule book.

I looked at the on-line rulebook and could not find update/backdate listed anywhere, is it called something else or is this a generic term. If it's in the book somewhere can anybody tell me under which section it is located? (i.e. 13. 4 or other)

Ronnie, update/backdate is available to Street Prepared (and to classes that inherit rules from SP) - chapter 15, I believe (I think it's on the first page of SP rules). So, no update/backdate in Stock. What you can theoretically do in Stock is a package conversion, which is to convert a car to a different package that was available that same year, but it must be a complete conversion (you can't pick and choose what pieces to convert). And example of this might be the conversion of a base model Miata to that of the R-package Miata. If you were to do a package conversion to the Cobra, you'd have to make it into something you could have optioned from the dealer for that model year.

Regarding Tri-State, awards are for individual classes. 

"I think I need a rule book". How true, how true!!!!!!!

A 2000 Mustang V6 would normally be in G Stock.

What does the Bullitt suspension consist of? What was the original size wheel for your car?

DB is correct - "up date/back date" only applies once you move to the SPs.

I have more 2007 rule books, one of which I can get to you. 

Basically, the bullitt package is for the 03ish Mustang GT's as the new Shelby GT package is for the 07 Mustang GT's...It's basically a cold air intake, lower springs, and a few other simple mods, mostly cosmetic...for the case of the bulitt though, they also included a bigger brake upgrade which were basically cobra brakes...

 the problem with going from a v6 to a full bullitt or cobra setup would be the fact that those factory packages are for 8-cylindes engines and it wouldnt be cost effective to make a v6 stang into a v8 with all the body, suspension, brake, etc. crap that would be required...

 Several people though are taking 07 GT's and doing the "shelby conversion" though and competing in FS...unfortunately, mine is an 05 and the shelby gt was not available in 05, nor was the GT 500, so neither of those conversions are avaiable to me...

 anyway, i made a decision on what i am going to do...I am going to stay within the limits of FS, but I am going to push those limits as far as possible, i.e. going with a significanly bigger/stiffer front sway bar, much stiffer struts/shocks (more than likely billstein non-adj.), a more high perf. brake pad, and some stickier 245/45 tires on the stock 8-in. wheel for now...I may find a lighter weight wheel down the road, but that will be the extent of things for now...that was i can be as competitive as possible in FS...I would ultimately like to make a car that can compete on the national level in FS and then go run it at nationals in the next couple of years...

Y2E0L0L5OGWT69:

anyway, i made a decision on what i am going to do...I am going to stay within the limits of FS, but I am going to push those limits as far as possible, i.e. going with a significanly bigger/stiffer front sway bar, much stiffer struts/shocks (more than likely billstein non-adj.), a more high perf. brake pad, and some stickier 245/45 tires on the stock 8-in. wheel for now...I may find a lighter weight wheel down the road, but that will be the extent of things for now...that was i can be as competitive as possible in FS...I would ultimately like to make a car that can compete on the national level in FS and then go run it at nationals in the next couple of years...

Given those goals, your decision is a wise one. I'm assuming you'll be going with street tires for the time being. I think you'd be happy with the Bridgestone RE-01R, which is what I'm running. By the time you run through those you'll be ready to spring for the R-comps and lightweight wheels.

From your last post, you have no way to change anything but the driver.

I think I'd have to toss in a bigger check and get the double ADJUSTABLE "whatever brand" shock and an ADJUSTABLE front bar.

Then your CAR OWNER will have some way to change what you've got besides the DA driver.

Two quick questions for anyone out there...

The first question is a quick clarification in the rule book as I am a little confused about the wording which seems to be a common trend lol...

(1) Are adjustable shocks/struts such at Koni Sports or Tokico D-specs allowed in stock class? If i understand the rulebook correctly, they are, but I want to make sure...

 The second question is more just a matter of opinion...

(2) Would you suggest a 245/45 or a 255/40 on a stock size 17x8" wheel? I am concerned if the 255/40 would have enough sidewall to hold such a heavy car under hard cornering?

Brian answered you about the shocks. I believe the wording is something about mounting points and ride height remaining unchanged (no adjustable spring perches, for example), but adjustable shocks are generally fine. Double-adjustables are nice, but in practice I don't adjust mine very often. In fact, I would argue that a set of non-adjustable shocks that are custom-valved for a particular application are a better bet than adjustables that you have to tune yourself.

For the tire, it's good advice to see what the fast guys are doing and imitate them, but in your case, none of the fast guys are running street tires on a FS Mustang, and street tires behave much differently than R-comps. I would suggest going with the 245/45, but that's just me. If the 255/40 will give you significantly improved gearing and still allow you to hit upwards of 60mph in 2nd gear, you should consider it. For some reason the 245mm Bridgestones are much, much cheaper than the 255mm version, which makes the decision easier.