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spring rate question

Last post 05-10-2008, 7:38 PM by lennecefer. 10 replies.
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  •  08-14-2002, 3:42 PM 71493

    spring rate question

    I've settled on giving sts another season and will be looking to do a lil' work on my neon.

    I am currently running Mopar springs (310/230) with my stock Konis.

    I am looking for suggestions on how high (rate-wise) you can go on street tires.

    I am working on the assumption that 600-800 would be too far to push Azenis.

    Any opinions would be welcomed.
    Derek Wyman
    #141 STS
    98 Dodge Neon ACR (retired)
    96 Neon ACR (sold)
  •  08-15-2002, 5:07 AM 71494 in reply to 71493

    • Neo is not online. Last active: 05/08/2005, 12:27 PM Neo
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    Re: spring rate question

    I don't know Neons from shine-ola, so take this with some grains of salt. The spring rates your running now are very similar to what I've been running on my Integra for the past year, and I would say are not as stiff as they could be for my car or yours. What the "best" or most advisable rates for your car is debatable to some extent. But I would try to figure out what, for example, Mark Daddio (of DSP fame) is running on his Neon (if he is in fact still campaingning in one), as well as asking around some of the other nationally competitive STSers who drive Neons (Eric Linoff (sp?) comes to mind). Sure, DSP cars get to run on race rubber and they can take a bit more spring than the Azenis, but this should give you a ball park idea of where you'd like to go. A lot of this is trial and error, plus test n tune type of stuff, so don't feel locked in to whatever you choose. Me, soon I'm going to swap over to GC coilovers with something in the neighborhood of 400 front and 450 rear and take it from there. But my car weighs in at a few hundred pounds more than yours, so that's why I suggest speaking with Neon knowledgable folks. Also, if you're running off-the-shelf Koni yellows and while there is not perfect consensus about this, these shocks can handle spring rates of up to 400-450 #s. After that, many would advise getting them revalved to handle stiffer springs. So keep that in mind as well.

    ------------------
    Casey
    #41 STS
    '97 Integra GSR C-dan
  •  08-15-2002, 5:23 AM 71495 in reply to 71494

    Re: spring rate question

    Yeah, that's good advice. I can't remember neon rates either (even though i owned one), but you shouldn't be running as stiff as you would be if on race rubber. And off-the-shelf Konis are only good to 400-450 lbs (as was said). I'd stay away from the really stiff springs and get something more moderate (still will ride stiff for sure!). But as to actual rates and handling balance on the Neon, I don't rememeber f/r rates at all. My guess is that 400-450 is right where you'll want to be, depending on your car's weight.
    Chris Shenefield
    streettouring.com
    1989 Honda Civic Si (STS)
    redshiftmotorsports.com
    streettouring.com
  •  08-15-2002, 10:27 AM 71496 in reply to 71495

    Re: spring rate question

    What I am thinking is revalving the Konis (fronts anyway) and looking for something 450-500.

    The Mopar coilovers are over 600 for the fronts and I think that is a bit much for Azenis.
    Derek Wyman
    #141 STS
    98 Dodge Neon ACR (retired)
    96 Neon ACR (sold)
  •  08-15-2002, 3:43 PM 71497 in reply to 71496

    Re: spring rate question

    Take a read of this and you'll have some more information...
    http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm?pagetype=2&form_article=2720

    With Goodyear slicks, I have run as high as 800 pounds springs in the front and 1400 pound springs in the rear - road race though...but without knowing what you run for motion ratios we can talk spring rates all we want - but you really need to know your wheel rate.

    If you can't get to your wheel rate, you can still make changes in the springs keeping in mind that they are relative.

    Good Luck,

    Kirk
  •  08-16-2002, 5:42 AM 71498 in reply to 71497

    Re: spring rate question

    How does one determine wheel rate anyways? If it's in that link, it wouldn't connect for me (I have a very old Mac though).


    ------------------
    _sean_
    Det. Region SCCA
    99 Z24 - STS #47
  •  08-16-2002, 7:21 AM 71499 in reply to 71498

    Re: spring rate question

    The Neon is McPhearson strut at all 4 corners (or Chapman strut at rear?)... but basically the spring rate is closer to the wheel rate than on a Honda or rear of a bmw. So, that's why I thought 400-450 was plenty. 500 seems reasonable too, but usually autocross spring rates are lower than road race because of the bumpiness we deal with at many naitonal sites.
    Chris Shenefield
    1989 Honda Civic Si (STS)
    redshiftmotorsports.com
    streettouring.com
  •  08-16-2002, 11:41 PM 71500 in reply to 71499

    Re: spring rate question

    Originally posted by AutoXFool:
    How does one determine wheel rate anyways? If it's in that link, it wouldn't connect for me (I have a very old Mac though).


    If I understnad it correctly, the simplest way to get a ballpark figure is to compare the distance from the control arm inner pivot to the point where spring acts on the control arm, divided by the length from the control arm pivot to the ball joint. Not entirely accurate, but close enough.

    For example, take a control arm that is 10 inches long from the inner pivot to the ball joint. If the spring pushes on the ball joint (or through it in the case of a Mac Strut), wheel rate is effectively spring rate.

    Now, suppose your spring is mounted 6" from the inner pivot (like on a Honda LCA), your effective wheel rate would be 6/10, or 60% of the spring rate. So, 500 lb springs would yield roughly a 300 lb wheel rate in the above example.

    Course, I may have the numbers reversed somewhere, but I'm doing this in my head. You also have to take into effect angle of spring tilt, as unless the spring is perpendicular to the LCA, all of the force is not vertical (Cos of the angle, or Sin, depending on how you measure the angle)., but this will get you close.

    ------------------
    David Avard
    '90 Mazda Protege LX
    '02 Nissan Altima 3.5SE

    [This message has been edited by Davard (edited August 16, 2002).]
    David Avard
    89 Honda Civic Si black (STS)
    07 Mazda 3s (HS?)
  •  08-21-2002, 12:42 PM 71501 in reply to 71500

    • GRMPer is not online. Last active: 11/30/2008, 6:30 AM GRMPer
    • Top 150 Contributor
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    Re: spring rate question

    It's actually a squared function...so 6/10^2 = .6^2 or .36...so 500 lb/in = 180 lb/in at the wheels.

    that's why I have 900lb/in rear springs on the Civic....it only equals around 340.

    Per
  •  05-10-2008, 6:59 PM 299528 in reply to 71494

    Re: spring rate question

    I have a 95 integra and i want to get new spring on my car what do you think about h&r spring with tokico blue shocks

  •  05-10-2008, 7:38 PM 299534 in reply to 299528

    Re: spring rate question

    save your money and go with konis, tokicos are just stock replacements, the valving will not like any type of drop.

     
     

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