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SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

Last post 11-14-2008, 11:27 PM by Mark Foust. 73 replies.
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  •  07-22-2008, 9:02 PM 311516 in reply to 311509

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    subrew:


    *subrew goes to build his Hyundai Scoupe Turbo


     

    Damn, a Sonnet and a Scoupe Turbo, you are king of the obsure race cars!  I should introduce you to my friend with an FSP LeCar. 


    SCCA RoadRally 2009 National Tour Champion, Sportsman
  •  07-22-2008, 9:32 PM 311520 in reply to 311443

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    I'd just like to congratulate Chris Travis on his 2009 SMF National Championship... Big Smile

     

    Does anyone see *ANYTHING* besides an EF/EG Civic with a built NA K20 winning once cars get developed?

    I don't like the 1.4 adder either.  It should be at least a multiplier in a SMF class.  There's such a huge point of diminishing returns on power to weight with a FWD chassis.  A turbo 1.6L has to weigh 200 lbs more than a 2L NA motor.  With the Honda K20 making 230+ whp with bolt-ons, cams, and an ECU.... how much is a 300 whp turbo 1.6L worth when it has to push around an extra 200 lbs?

     


    Jesse
    -2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
    -2007-2008 XP Spyder
  •  07-22-2008, 9:51 PM 311523 in reply to 311506

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    subrew:

    I briefly thought of the Lotus, but then remembered SM bans all Lotus', and SM2 only specifically allows a couple.

     You're right, I had a brainfart.  I thought I remembered the FWD Elan being on the "All excluded except..." list.  It's not.


  •  07-23-2008, 1:41 AM 311575 in reply to 311443

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    MattP:

    I don't understand the weight penalty for 2 seaters in a FWD only SM class.  What's the advantage of a CRX over a Civic of the same year?  It's lighter!  Why does that matter in a class with minimum weights?

     1st gen crx has a wheelbase of 86". 2nd is at 90". they are much shorter then the equivalent civic, to the tune of 12~15" in just wheelbase alone (a foot and a half compared to later cars). given equal power, weight etc the smaller car will always be faster then the larger one. we currently have uber lightweight classes for said crx and civics (sts, sts2, ep).

    an ep car with an interior and dot tires will surely trump a late model vw, honda, scion, mazdaspeed, cobalt, etc. an example of what will be a fast fwd SM car would be Jose Mercado's rsx. he has a 2 liter supercharged powerplant with 315's up front. he will be required to weigh 2330 under the new ruleset. his car is currently 2700, but he still has sunroof, a/c, etc. the car can drop 200 easily, and with some $ and development he can be much closer. he has not had the drive to do this when he has to compete against evo's that weigh roughly the same, make much more power and have 2 extra drive wheels. he has had renewed vigor as of late, because SMF is on the horizon.

    there are plenty of these examples out there, for instance the srt4 neon from ohio (sorry, forgot his name). the srt would be a perfect match for Jose's rsx. as well as the current civic si, and previous gen civics, gti's, etc.

    for those who still want to campaign an early civic/crx, how would you propose we equate a 20 year old crx with a recent srt4? short of adding a large amount of weight, i do not think there is anything you can do to equalize the cars. again, if you have a early civic/crx and want a competitive class, you have STS/STS2. want race tires? CSP. want to gut the car and run real slicks? EP.

    a friend has a 1.6 supercharged crx. car weighs 2160, as it is not fully prepped for the class. under the new proposal, it will have to weigh 2400. excessive? yes, most think so. now think of it this way: if the min weight was to be 2200 for said car, it would surely annilate jose's aforementioned rsx, and i would personally run the crx of the rsx. but, jose's car at 2330 with 300whp will have a def chance against a 2400lb 225whp crx. 

    another data point for crx ballast: a csp crx with the 1.6 naturally aspirated will have to weigh 1970 (100+ over csp weights), before the added 150 lbs. i hate to use jose's car reference again, but would you rather be in a 2400lb rsx or a built 1.6 csp crx with 200whp that weighs 1970? again, easy choice. okie, add 150 and the 2120. still very competitive imho, but clearly not the overdog it would be at csp weight of ~1840. 

    all this weight talk is making me realize i am a fat bastard and need to drop 40lbs.... ok, i have to go to bed. 

    129STS:

    I'd just like to congratulate Chris Travis on his 2009 SMF National Championship... Big Smile

     

    lol, i dunno how i completely missed that.... talk about counting chickens before they hatch, eh? thanks for the vote of confidence though  

     


    Hi! I'm Rodney. "Hi Rodney!" I'm addicted to Solo....
  •  07-23-2008, 2:03 AM 311576 in reply to 311497

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    ok, still not in bed, but my eyes are tearing quite badly.... 

    rushman:
    It makes sense, civics didn't dominate SM, so they added civic dominated SM class ;-) .

    But in all honesty, I don't see the need.  The SM rule set could be modified to equalize cars more using weight, I don't see the need for yet another class that doesn't accomplish something 'new'.
     

     as much as it pains me to say it, but fwd will never be able to keep up with the current awd contingent and past m3's that have won nationals repeatedly. lord knows i have tried.... SMF evens out the playing field. no more 1.588 60' launches...(awd celica at dc pro). we will all be in the 2's, whether i have a 1970lb crx or a 2800lb mazdaspeed. as far as it being "new", many people have half prepped fwd SM cars, and prefer to stay away from big events with fear of not being competitve. with SMF, everyone will be on that same field.

     ok, the wife yelled at me as i a typing too loudly... good night.  


    Hi! I'm Rodney. "Hi Rodney!" I'm addicted to Solo....
  •  07-23-2008, 2:36 AM 311577 in reply to 311576

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    still not in bed yet... shows you where my priorities are.... i just searched out wheelbases and lengths for various cars.

    03 srt4  174.4/105

    03 rsx   172.2/101.2

    06 civic 175.4/106.3

    08 cobalt 180/103.3

    08 vw gti 165.8/101.5

    07 mazdaspd 176.8/103.9

    95 civic 160.2/101.2 (my weapon of choice for the last 9 seasons)

    compare that to crx:

    84 crx 144.7/86.6 

    88 crx 147.8/90.6  

     

    ok, i am going to be dnow. seriously. 

     

     


    Hi! I'm Rodney. "Hi Rodney!" I'm addicted to Solo....
  •  07-23-2008, 7:41 AM 311586 in reply to 311520

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    129STS:
    Does anyone see *ANYTHING* besides an EF/EG Civic with a built NA K20 winning once cars get developed?

     

     Original Mini cooper?


    Alex Jones
    2007 B-Street Prepared GXP
    www.CrazyMonkeyRacing.com

    "Your co-worker can't make it in today, the water pump on the Porsche broke"
    "Isn't his car air-cooled?!"
  •  07-23-2008, 7:43 AM 311588 in reply to 311577

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    If it's about wheelbase, use wheelbase for the weight penalty!

    Some other 4 seaters that would be legal for the class:

    Honda Civic (1st gen): 139.8/86.6

    Honda Civic (2rd gen): 146.9/88.6

    Ford Festiva: 136.8/90.4

    85-88 Mazda 323:161.8/94.5

    Corrolla FX-16: 160/95.7

    Original Mini:  120/80.3

     

     

    The CRX and Civic of the same year should be compared, since they are essentially mechanically identical.  Are the remaining differences (wheelbase and uh, I'm not sure what else) once you do a SM legal build on the car worth 150 lbs?

    The equivalent Civics for the CRX's you listed:

    Honda Civic (3rd gen): 150/94

    Honda Civic (4th gen): 156.1/98.4

    And the 2 seat version of your Civic, the Del Sol:

    Del Sol: 157.6/93.3

     

    How much difference is there in speed between a STS2 CRX and a STS Civic?  Is the CRX faster because it weighs 100 lbs or so less?  What about a CSP Civic and CRX?  What's more important to the CRX being faster than the Civic?  Its weight or wheelbase?

     

    Please don't let this 'seats as a measure of performance' concept spread to another class. If it's a proxy for wheelbase, base a weight penalty on wheelbase.  If it's some other factor I'm missing, penalize that.

  •  07-23-2008, 8:33 AM 311597 in reply to 311588

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    I'm thinking VQ35 swapped Spec V with Maxima final gear ratio with a min weight of 2,350lbs. running 275's or more up front.  Hmm...that does sound awfully tempting. Big Smile
    2006 Subaru WRX STi
    Sponsored by AgileAuto.com
    D.C./Philly Region - 3 STU
  •  07-23-2008, 8:56 AM 311603 in reply to 311586

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    DrJones_CMR:

    129STS:
    Does anyone see *ANYTHING* besides an EF/EG Civic with a built NA K20 winning once cars get developed?

     

     Original Mini cooper?

    With what engine?  A Rover 2L?  The Rover 4L V8?  I just don't see adding 600 lbs of ballast as making that chassis "work".
     


    Jesse
    -2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
    -2007-2008 XP Spyder
  •  07-23-2008, 9:43 AM 311617 in reply to 311603

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    Don't forget the Geo Metro:

    Length: 146.1 in.
    Wheel Base: 89.2 in.
    Curb weight for hatch: 
    1650

    (for '90 metro) 

    Put one of those Cobalt SS motors in it ;) 


    Brian Bell
    ST '89 Civic Si
  •  07-23-2008, 9:50 AM 311618 in reply to 311617

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    Oh yeah, the 1990's Mercury Capri:

    166.1/94.7

  •  07-23-2008, 11:00 AM 311641 in reply to 311618

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    My only gripe with this class is it's mis-denomenation.  It should be called SMFXL.  :) 
  •  07-23-2008, 11:21 AM 311648 in reply to 311641

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    Clearly the people with the ideas were thinking: "How do we get all the guys with Street-cred to autox... I got it. Street-cred M$tha F$cka, that's what we will call the class. And thus, this moment of genius beget SMF. The official spokes person is Sammy Jackson.

    Matthew Leach
  •  07-23-2008, 11:32 AM 311652 in reply to 311617

    Re: SMF Proposal In August Fastrack

    BrianGT:

    Don't forget the Geo Metro:

    Length: 146.1 in.
    Wheel Base: 89.2 in.
    Curb weight for hatch: 
    1650

    (for '90 metro) 

    Put one of those Cobalt SS motors in it ;) 

     

    And add 680 lbs (minus drivetrain weight difference) to bring it up to 2330 lbs.....


    Mike
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