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I'm hoping to start a discussion about how to get to be a better driver faster, specifically the merits of driving multiple vehicles.  I feel it is is clear there is a benefit to driving one consistent car for practicing certain aspects of autocrossing, but also a benefit to experiencing different cars.  Which variations are helpful, which ones aren't?  What should the mix be?    For example, lots of runs in a good consistent car and a few runs in other cars thrown in, or drive as many different cars as you can get a seat in? 

It is pretty easy to get a seat in other cars that aren't well sorted, or are of a different configuration than you are used to.  But will it make you faster, faster?  I drove an F150 lightning that had tons of power, and handled terrible.  I feel if I could master throttle and brake modulation in that vehicle, it might make me a little better in my own.   This got me thinking (again) about the merits of driving different vehicles.  I'd like to see people's thoughts on a strategy for maximizing the learning experience that comes from opportunities to drive other cars.

Thoughts?

Richard 

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WTB: CSP Spyder parts. What you got?

I have no doubt that driving lots of different cars will make you a more well rounded driver.  That being said don't expect to drive 10 different cars during the season then hop into the 11th and expect FTD. 

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NERSCCA
FSP MKII GTI
STS MKIV GTi

You will be a better driver faster by driving different cars, but you need to drive them enough to learn from them.  For example, fun runs in 6 different cars is pretty much just for fun.  Spending enough time to master each car will teach you something.

If you can not jump into a ton of cars, I am a firm believer a low power FWD car is the best car to learn.  Why?  Generally they don't do anything good, make you pay for every mistake, and teach you how to carry speed smoothly.  If you pay attention to some of the top FWD drivers, they can usually hop into RWD and run well.  RWD drivers generally don't hop into FWD and do as well as quick. 

 
Brian
 

For me, this is in the context of driving two different cars under two different entries at the same event (5-8 runs per car).  I have a lot of trouble going from one car to another at an event.  If i drive two cars in one heat (so drive car 1, drive car 2, drive car 1, and so on) I am generally much slower in both cars than I think i should be.  Much of my mental energy is dedicated to getting my head around which vehicle i am driving.  If I drive 2 cars in separate heats ( 1,1,1,2,2,2,1,1,1,2,2,2,) then I have a shot at a good run on my first runs, and then my last runs in each heat in each car.

Brian,  I find low powered stock class FWD cars....  not much fun to drive.....  Low powered FWD cars that have lots of rear roll stiffness, or high powered fwd cars with lots of rear roll stiffness and an lsd can be fun to drive...  which were you referring to?  Was the FWD thing  more of comment for the newbs (this discussion is for them too, but I've been doing this for about 10 years off and on, and haven't missed a local event since 2005)?  I posted about this because I pretty much plateaued in my learning in early 07, and I'm still sitting on that plateau 

Perhaps 90% of my runs were in some form of MR car, 9% FF, 1%FR.  All the low powered FF cars taught me that I know of is patience with the throttle, and to use it like an on/off switch (the current car isn't helping that bad behavior, because it doesn't punish me for it enough.)
 

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WTB: CSP Spyder parts. What you got?

rocco2gti:

I have no doubt that driving lots of different cars will make you a more well rounded driver.  That being said don't expect to drive 10 different cars during the season then hop into the 11th and expect FTD. 

 

Apparently I already take FTD in my regular ride.  What i am hoping is to do it more often as a result of driving other cars.  Curious there wasn't more interest in discussing this when threads like "new HS looks good" get hundreds of posts.

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WTB: CSP Spyder parts. What you got?

It's kind of hard to get a grip on where this topic wants to go, and probably more difficult for lots of people to imagine whether they'd have been better or worse off for having the alternate experience.

But I'd guess that at either end of the scale from first event newbie to serious FTD threat you're better off sharpening your skills in that particular car.  In the first case, it's better to be familiar with the car generally as you learn how to drive it faster.  Less mental (over)load.  In the latter, I think it's about not wanting to learn things that don't apply and more about making your performance peak with what the car does.  For example, learning throttle control in the Lightning might incline you to be a little too conservative in how quickly you can add throttle, at least for a couple of runs back in your car.

I think maybe, given that you've picked off FTD at least once, you aren't being challenged enough.  Relatively how well would (does?) an equally experienced driver do driving your car?  Is it time for some datalogging or comparative video?

FWIW my recent auto-X experience is limited to medium power FE/RWD and what now rates at best as medium-low power FWD.

Norm

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seat time is where you find it (semi-retired) weenie CP '79 Malibu, (no longer ST/SP legal) '95 626

I'd like to THINK consistently driving the same car, making a few studied, incremental setting changes, and driving in a consistent manner would lead to lower times.  However, I haven't had chance to try this method (yet), so I have no idea.

I have a feeling that less advanced drivers benefit the most from this method.  Likewise I believe more advanced drivers, e.g. your typical Evo instructor, benefit more from trying more cars, because they already have the basics down.

 

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Adam Wosneski
91 240sx LE -- hopefully DSP/ITS in 09
Need funds, tow vehicle
00 Tacoma 2rz-fe -- daily beater

Thanks for the replies.  In all the in-person discussions I've had about this topic locally (which spurred my post here to get more informed opinions), I hadn't really considered the "how would you know?" factor that is always in my mind when I discuss parts recommendations, etc.  I like the analysis for describing the effects in the short term, and agree that it seems logical both the novice and the expert benefit from seat time in their competition vehicle.

 

I know from my experiences driving two cars at one event, or even driving my own car after a major setup change, etc that I can not just hop in a car and be fast.  What many people in my region swear to, is that driving different cars will help lead to being able to hop in anything and be fast, and be faster in your regular ride.  I am very fast in my own car, and marginal at best in other people's cars (as far as errors I make that I can identify, but not correct in a few runs).  I haven't had someone I consider to be as fast as, or faster than me drive my car in a while, but I co-drove a CSP miata with a guy who I have been assuming is a faster driver than me, in a slower car.  He beat me by about 0.03 in his car.

Where this is coming from:  I know there is more time out there, and I just recently got to another (satisfying, at first...) plateau where I can have a "perfect" run where there were no mistakes I can find.  Even if that run was PAX FTD, I know there is more time out there, and not being able to identify what i should do differently is starting to drive me nuts....

Richard 

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WTB: CSP Spyder parts. What you got?

Rocwandrer:

  not being able to identify what i should do differently is starting to drive me nuts....

Richard 

Even with data acquisition?

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Adam Wosneski
91 240sx LE -- hopefully DSP/ITS in 09
Need funds, tow vehicle
00 Tacoma 2rz-fe -- daily beater

this would probably be much harder for you than for me, as you are further along as a driver, but anyway...

i find the best way to get smacked off a learning plateau is to find someone that can beat me in MY car, and let them do it (on the condition that they run once on my RH side, and I can run once on their RH side, and they offer some comment)

i did it last year once, and again this year once, and in each case it gave me a bit of a fresh start

cheers,

charlie

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Charlie Thompson
'04 JCW Cooper [STX]
NER Cannon Fodder

cmt52663:

this would probably be much harder for you than for me, as you are further along as a driver, but anyway...

i find the best way to get smacked off a learning plateau is to find someone that can beat me in MY car, and let them do it (on the condition that they run once on my RH side, and I can run once on their RH side, and they offer some comment)

i did it last year once, and again this year once, and in each case it gave me a bit of a fresh start

cheers,

charlie

 

I did that today.  I knew I wasn't very fast, but I was winning my class. I grabbed a buddy who drives a similar car, but in HS (Golf 2.0, I have a GTI 1.8t that's moderately prepped for DSP) and had him co-drive.  Also had the organizer of the event drive the car.  My car is capable of top 20 pax all day long, I just need to catch up to it.

 Took the wind out of my get-a-new-car-for-solo sails.  Now it's just "get faster, stupid."

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#678 - 05 VW GTI 1.8T
NNJR - DSP

Primetime Glick:

Rocwandrer:

  not being able to identify what i should do differently is starting to drive me nuts....

Richard 

Even with data acquisition?

 

I've been trying to make that happen for over a year (please, don't ask, nobody has this much bad luck on something this simple!).  Might (thought I am not holding my breath) happen for the next event....

 

Might do the north country rumble event with some other fast drivers.  rules are 4 people in the same car, many runs in practice, then all competition runs count.  If I volunteer my car, it should be an awesome opportunity to look at what daq can do for me......

 

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WTB: CSP Spyder parts. What you got?