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I've been running my Civic in FSP for a few months now and a strange thing seems to be happening. It seems that when I have a passenger in the car my times have greatly improved over just flying solo. The best times are when a person closer to my weight is in the car with me.

My theory is that even though it is added weight the weight is evenly distributed making the car more predictable and easier to carve through the corners.

I do not have coil-overs, but from what I have read you can get your car corner-balanced to make the weight evenly distributed if you have coilover suspension.

Has anyone had the same experience as me or am I crazy? Does the corner balancing idea make sense to correct this? What can I do in the meantime since I don't have coilovers?

I've had the same thing happen occasionally but I think it's just me driving smoother because I don't want to embarrass myself with a passenger!  As far as weight distribution is concerned I can think of two things right away; In FSP I think you can put the battery in the floorboard behind the passenger seat.  Get yourself a real big battery ;-)  Along the same lines, FSP has minimum weights for seats but not maximum.  How about a really heavy passenger seat?

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DJsilver

Of course! Why didn't I think of it many years ago?! How about a couple bags of potatoes in the passenger seats (all of them, if you have a four-door) and a really big battery... maybe a couple of those, as well. I knew of a Pantera back in the seventies, with a spare huge battery, and an electric chain-hoist complete with chain filling the front boot. The guy actually thought this extra 300 lbs was helping his understeer problem. More likely his driving technique needed improving.

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James Plotkin
'05 FSP Echo

Maybe I'm not being clear on what I'm trying to say. My thought is as the car is now with non-adjustable suspension it has an extra 165 lbs on the drivers side. Surely this is enough to make it unbalanced or at least biased to one side in a turn. If a passenger of close to 165lbs were to sit on the other side of the car it would in effect balance out the car making it more stable and predictable in a turn.

I'm not trying to add more weight, I'm trying to balance the car. I want to know if adjustable coilover suspension is what I would need to do this, or am I off the mark and should be thinking about something else as the culprit or soloution. 

Corner balancing does nothing to F/R or L/R weight distribution.  What it does is even out the cross-weight, which is RF+LR vs. LF+RR.  The passenger thing is all in your head.  You're driving differently because someone is in the other seat.

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Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

When I was competing in stock category, there were some courses on which having a passenger improved my times. 

If there were a number of important right hand corners, having the weight of a passenger on the right side of the car definitely helped.  It wasn't just my times that improved ... the car felt faster in those particular corners.  It was sometimes very striking.  And if there were enough right handers, or if the few that were there were important enough, it was enough to overcome the disadvantage of the extra weight.

It wasn't a question of my coming up with the theory and then emotionally convincing myself that it worked.  Each time it happened, the passenger was along only because it was a fun run, not because I was experimenting.  I felt the difference and looked at my times.

 

 

After my last suspension re-do I haven't corner balnaced to car. I just set it level all the way around. Good enough for dinkin around at regional events.  However I was at a test and tune and was taking measurements and had my friend sit in the driver seat.  Car suspension compressed almost 1/4" on left side.  He got out and it went back up.

Got the cute 100 girl to sit in passenger seat, almost the same result.

 

It was like a light bulb dimly lit over my head.  I was setting the car up even side to side  and also experienced quicker times with a small passenger.  Now my car is 1/4" higher on driver side empty.  We will see what happens now.

 So can this be a coincidence ?  I think not.

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Want to go faster, please send money.

I usually get the shop to let me sit in the driver's seat for alignments.

Just remember, on course your suspension is never at its resting position, so that 1/4" difference may not be doing that much.  Alignment changes, especially cross camber and toe changes can have an effect.  For myself, I've noticed that I can feel the extra weight with a passenger.  The car may turn left a little better, but the transitions are just a little slower and I can feel the extra mass dragging the car around.  Of course the person who's usually in the passenger seat is my car owner, who isn't exactly a cute 100-lb girl... 

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Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

Whenever I run with a passenger I know its going to be a +1sec run. If I go faster with someone in the car I know I'm doing something wrong and I fix it... then I'm still faster alone. I've only been doing this for ~3 years but its always been the same.

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2005 Mazda SP23 Hatch

I agree. It's something in your head not with the car.

 Usually it's because you are A) showing off so driving more aggressively, or B) you are more relaxed so you drive smoother trying to show your passenger how to do this right :)

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KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes
Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!
Buy my Civic parts!

Or ... you can actually feel changes to the car.  I've had a good bit of success autocrossing over the years and yes indeed I can feel the change.  And like I wrote in an earlier post on this thread, given certain course situations, it can yield an improvement to ones times.

 

Jim 

If it's in the driver's head, there are a hell of a lot of circle track racers that need to be told that the location of the weight in the car doesn't matter.  They spend a lot of time and money getting as much weight on the left side of the car as the rules allow.  And those morons actually move the weight to the right when they use the same cars on a road course.  What a bunch of fools doing all that work.

My Mercedes turns left much, much better than it turns right.  The difference is so great several magazines commented on it in their test reports.  Adding a passenger on a course with mostly right turns, especially sweepers, cuts the time considerably.  Adding a passenger on a course with mostly left turns, increases time considerably.  I can't tell you how a passenger affects the solo vees because the passengers keep falling off.

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2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee

i have heard that every 100lbs. will add a tenth of a second to your quarter mile time.

Captain Ron:

i have heard that every 100lbs. will add a tenth of a second to your quarter mile time.

On a drag strip. Auto cross and road racing and alike 100lb effect more that that.

I believe largest effect of a passenger is the physiological change in the drivers.  I drive smother with a passenger, that alone.  Because I feel responsible for the passenger.
 

kakarot:

Captain Ron:

i have heard that every 100lbs. will add a tenth of a second to your quarter mile time.

On a drag strip. Auto cross and road racing and alike 100lb effect more that that.

I believe largest effect of a passenger is the physiological change in the drivers.  I drive smother with a passenger, that alone.  Because I feel responsible for the passenger.
 

You brake a fraction of a second earlier and a touch lighter (smoother), turn a bit earlier and slower (smoother), get on the throttle earlier and smoother.

Add to that the fact that your passenger makes your car closer to its alignment settings (unless you align with something in the driver's seat), and the car is better as well.

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Glenn L. Austin, Computer Wizard and Race Car Driver
2005 Ultra Yellow Nissan 350Z Track Model
2007 Packwood ProSolo "first loser" (0.081)
2007 SCCA Solo National Championships - 10th place

Down in Atlanta both Robert Carpenter and I saw slower times in the TNT with each other as passengers, as much as 3-5 tenths on a 18 second course.  we took a lot of runs, so I'm convinced it's a bad thing. 

 But my biggest problem is having a passenger for the first three runs of a meet, then for the money run I kick them out and the car handles differently than what I'm used to without the weight and I f up the run.  I should probably go without a passenger more, but it's hard to kick 120 pound women out. 

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Jer
1993 MR2 #196 ES
2005 Lotus Elise (retired)
1999 Dodge 4X4 tow vehicle
1993 Miata (just tired)
1987 Corolla Lemons car
1984 Citation Lemons car

I won't take a rider who is over 165 pounds--I spent alot of $$$ getting my car to the minimum allowed in SM!  That said, I usually don't do as well with a passenger, though I don't feel it in the handling.  My car has alot of torque,and I tend to give the passengers a "thrill ride", showing off the acceleration rather than getting the quickest time...still a kid at heart!

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Bill Sims 1987 Alfa Romeo Milano 3.0
SM #53, Delta Region