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boxboy:

Are you smoking something good?   Sorry, but with the incredibly low weights in XP Stan's car doesn't really stand a chance.

Andy, I'm just fishing for an excuse when Stan beats me! 

Howdy,

modernbeat:

The weights are a pet-peeve to me too. But I think they should be lower across the board. Slightly lower for little cars, and MUCH lower for wide cars. I'd suggest a displacement x total tire width formula.

FWIW, my peeve is that I'll have to add hundreds of pounds over the stock weight with a nearly stock displacement engine to make my Lotus Europa legal for XP before I even start taking advantage of any of the weight-loss allowances. 

Because, of course, there are hundreds of Lotus Europas just hanging around wanting to be destroyed to run XP...

:-)

Mark

jesvilla:

My take on XP is that there almost needs to be something separating the light cars from the heavier cars, sort of an XP-lite and XP-full size(BP). However, the numbers right now don't justify splitting the class.

AAS continues to offer BP, and usually we get 4 or 5 Vettes, and a few times a year we get 6 or 7, but it's not consistent. So, the question remains, if you give them a class, will they come??

 Jesus

Hey Jesus

 I was curious if these cars were all BP prepped or just street cars that can't compete/win in other classes?  As I remember, the last few years of BP had a few street cars running for whatever reason.  Anymore, I don't believe there is a budget minded class that has extremely low min wts.  If you want budget minded, it needs to be street driveable and have a real world curbweight.

another .02

marka:

Because, of course, there are hundreds of Lotus Europas just hanging around wanting to be destroyed to run XP...

:-)

Mark

I've had three go through my hands in the last two years. All for less than $1000. Two others I passed on because of space constraints. Even nice ones are cheap.  And if they weren't bred to race, then what do you use them for? Commuting? With crappy ventilation, no AC, minimal outward visibility, invisible to SUVs, and scary accident safety? Relegate them to club concours? They're the unloved model in the Lotus lineup and get precious little respect at marque meets since they are neither rare, early, or fast. On the other hand, simple, light, small, cheap, mid-engined, and frankly, more available than the '89 Honda Civic Si that's still stock enough to build for STS? Sounds like a perfect XP candidate to me.

If anyone wants one, contact me. I'll find you a good XP candidate for less than a price of that clean Civic Si.

Anyway, I think the minimum weight should be a combination of displacement x tire width. Not a displacement only factor.
 

turbotoddie:

jesvilla:

My take on XP is that there almost needs to be something separating the light cars from the heavier cars, sort of an XP-lite and XP-full size(BP). However, the numbers right now don't justify splitting the class.

AAS continues to offer BP, and usually we get 4 or 5 Vettes, and a few times a year we get 6 or 7, but it's not consistent. So, the question remains, if you give them a class, will they come??

 Jesus

 

Hey Jesus

 I was curious if these cars were all BP prepped or just street cars that can't compete/win in other classes?  As I remember, the last few years of BP had a few street cars running for whatever reason.  Anymore, I don't believe there is a budget minded class that has extremely low min wts.  If you want budget minded, it needs to be street driveable and have a real world curbweight.

 

another .02

 

How many C4 BSP cars are there. They are the cars I have in mind to build this class on. Forget about street driveability.

Todd

The BP Vettes that show up at the AAS events are mostly C3's and prepped beyond what Chris is talking about on this thread, I mentioned them only as a reference to the fact that they do show up if they have a class.

Jesus

Hey Modernbeat(Jay??),

 OK sorry for hijacking this thread.

 I agree, Europas are very cheap in comparison to many other cars that are popular. They are not on many collectors radar at this time, which keeps the value down. It doesn't take much to get them up to speed either if you're mechanically inclined, as for any prepared class, you just can't leave the stock motor in it, build it like you would any other prepared car, and these Europas are very quick. My car, a D Mod 73 TC with 13b rotary, is already proving very quick in just over 1/2 a year of running it, although I probably can't win at the National level, 'cause it's 290 lbs over the D mod minimum. Anyway, for XP, a TC Europa with a 2liter engine would have to weigh 1640 lbs(1200+2x220) which is just 100 lbs +- from original street trim, gut the car and you have to add just over 200 lbs. Now, Moderbeat may be talking about an earlier S2 Europa which is lighter than a TC so he'll have to add even more weight to be legal.

 OK, back to the New BP rantings.

marka:

Howdy,

Because, of course, there are hundreds of Lotus Europas just hanging around wanting to be destroyed to run XP...

:-)  Mark 

Mark,

You don't need to destroy a Europa to run it in XP, just get a 2 liter 240hp motor and add some weight, no need to cut it up.

It's actually easier and cheaper to substitute a modern or rotary engine than to repair or hotrod the original Renault or TwinCam engines.

I can go on and on about the inexpensive ways to upgrade everything else.

And Jesus - I intend to take every advantage I can to save weight, and then ballast back up to the minimum. And yes, I started with an S2. They're CHEAP and if you happen to have any decent parts on it, the guys trying to keep nice ones are always looking for parts. I even had guys vying for my unbroken glass windshield. After purchasing and parting out the street equipment from my latest car that's destined for XP, I actually made a profit.