SCCAForums.com

fastbird86:

Just throwing this out to see what responce I would get!

 Whats the size of the skid pad at the Tire Rack in South Bend? If its not big enough I can understand why no one brought it up!

Is there a possability that the Solo Nationals can be held a some sort of manufactures testing facility? I would assume that a place like that would have a huge skid pad for automobile testing.

 

Not only has Damon mentioned this, but others have posted about vehicle dynamics test sites. One huge item to address is that these types of facilities would be extremely particular about oil leakage and other substances that can degrade the surface.

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Al Chan

acrace:

fastbird86:

Just throwing this out to see what responce I would get!

 Whats the size of the skid pad at the Tire Rack in South Bend? If its not big enough I can understand why no one brought it up!

Is there a possability that the Solo Nationals can be held a some sort of manufactures testing facility? I would assume that a place like that would have a huge skid pad for automobile testing.

 

Not only has Damon mentioned this, but others have posted about vehicle dynamics test sites. One huge item to address is that these types of facilities would be extremely particular about oil leakage and other substances that can degrade the surface.

No leaks?  I guess FM, GP, CP and all English cars will not be invited.  

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2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee

scarrie:

also, Texas A&M Riverside Campus in Bryan, TX.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Air_Force_Base#Riverside_Campus

If they're already using it for SCCA events, I wonder if it's a consideration...

You can see from the satellite views, there's been courses of various sizes all over it.

 from the wiki --

"The campus is also home to several Texas Transportation Institute (TTI) testing facilities used in the areas of vehicle performance and handling, vehicle-roadway interaction, the durability and efficacy of highway pavements, and the safety of structural systems"

The local University Car Club runs events out there, and when its clear of grass and gravel, its not bad, but they currently only have access to about 3/4 of the southern runway for course.  The runways also pretty much define a "down and back" type of course.  We really would need access to the "triangle" on the NW corner and the other runway to make an event like Nats work, and as far as I know, the University has not been open to that.  Mr. Farris knows more than I about the reasons why....

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-- Drew
AS S2000

I know that Michelin has a GORGEOUS skid pad (so called "black lake") in SC, but they guard that surface more vigorously than Ft. Knox, for good reason. The second problem is that they have no reason or use for parking space for 1000 cars and similar # of support vehicles nearby, so there is no place to hold a paddock. Third it is located in Dueling Banjo, SC with few hotels and even fewer places to eat. Fourth they are on the east coast which would have everyone west of the Mississippi crying foul.

Some of the area suggested by the SCCA questionaire: i.e. WI, etc would IMHO be a poor choice no matter how good the facility due to the unpredictability of the weather in the northern climes in Sept.

Maybe SCCA needs to approach the casino owners in Las Vegas. Guaranteeing them 2000 people would be visiting for a week, they would likely be sending out the bulldozers the next day! Heck they are willing to spend 10s of thousands of $$ to buy a piece of burnt toast!

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TEAM DYNAMICS

03 GSL, 05 HSL Nat Champ
AS 07 Solstice GXP

We'll be running at Michelin the week after Nationals this year (9/27-28).  It's fine for a regional or divisional event, but no room for paddock or grid beyond 250-300 cars, and even then, you're using the skid pad for some of that.  The pad is incredibly nice, but it's "only" 1400 x 400 - huge if you're designing one course, not so much if you're trying to fit two on there.

 And it is middle-of-freaking-nowhere, SC. 

 --Nick

acrace:

Not only has Damon mentioned this, but others have posted about vehicle dynamics test sites. One huge item to address is that these types of facilities would be extremely particular about oil leakage and other substances that can degrade the surface.

Consumers Reports site is an old drag strip in the middle of Connecticut. They have several auto crossers working there. They guard their site's surface the same way as the manufacturers. They need consistent reproducible results.

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Matt Murray

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today.

G1:

I know that Michelin has a GORGEOUS skid pad (so called "black lake") in SC, but they guard that surface more vigorously than Ft. Knox, for good reason. The second problem is that they have no reason or use for parking space for 1000 cars and similar # of support vehicles nearby, so there is no place to hold a paddock. Third it is located in Dueling Banjo, SC with few hotels and even fewer places to eat. Fourth they are on the east coast which would have everyone west of the Mississippi crying foul.

Some of the area suggested by the SCCA questionaire: i.e. WI, etc would IMHO be a poor choice no matter how good the facility due to the unpredictability of the weather in the northern climes in Sept.

Maybe SCCA needs to approach the casino owners in Las Vegas. Guaranteeing them 2000 people would be visiting for a week, they would likely be sending out the bulldozers the next day! Heck they are willing to spend 10s of thousands of $$ to buy a piece of burnt toast!

BTW 2000 visitors in Vegas is like 2 visitors in Topeka.  Nobody would notice.

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Jim Mueller
FSP 2003 Focus

Ralt25:

G1:

I know that Michelin has a GORGEOUS skid pad (so called "black lake") in SC, but they guard that surface more vigorously than Ft. Knox, for good reason. The second problem is that they have no reason or use for parking space for 1000 cars and similar # of support vehicles nearby, so there is no place to hold a paddock. Third it is located in Dueling Banjo, SC with few hotels and even fewer places to eat. Fourth they are on the east coast which would have everyone west of the Mississippi crying foul.

Some of the area suggested by the SCCA questionaire: i.e. WI, etc would IMHO be a poor choice no matter how good the facility due to the unpredictability of the weather in the northern climes in Sept.

Maybe SCCA needs to approach the casino owners in Las Vegas. Guaranteeing them 2000 people would be visiting for a week, they would likely be sending out the bulldozers the next day! Heck they are willing to spend 10s of thousands of $$ to buy a piece of burnt toast!

BTW 2000 visitors in Vegas is like 2 visitors in Topeka.  Nobody would notice.

It could make "Pick the Winners" a lot more interesting, though.  Someone could make more than a few bucks on it.

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clyde
#198 AS Boxster S - in need of SpinGuard
TeamWTF?!

Ralt25:

G1:

I know that Michelin has a GORGEOUS skid pad (so called "black lake") in SC, but they guard that surface more vigorously than Ft. Knox, for good reason. The second problem is that they have no reason or use for parking space for 1000 cars and similar # of support vehicles nearby, so there is no place to hold a paddock. Third it is located in Dueling Banjo, SC with few hotels and even fewer places to eat. Fourth they are on the east coast which would have everyone west of the Mississippi crying foul.

Some of the area suggested by the SCCA questionaire: i.e. WI, etc would IMHO be a poor choice no matter how good the facility due to the unpredictability of the weather in the northern climes in Sept.

Maybe SCCA needs to approach the casino owners in Las Vegas. Guaranteeing them 2000 people would be visiting for a week, they would likely be sending out the bulldozers the next day! Heck they are willing to spend 10s of thousands of $$ to buy a piece of burnt toast!

BTW 2000 visitors in Vegas is like 2 visitors in Topeka.  Nobody would notice.

They don't need to pave anything new. They already have "vast tracts of (paved) land."  I'd guess that just one parking lot at Las Vegas Speedway is 140+ acres. 

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David Avard
89 Honda Civic Si black (STS)
07 Mazda 3s (HS?)

Davard:

Ralt25:

G1:

I know that Michelin has a GORGEOUS skid pad (so called "black lake") in SC, but they guard that surface more vigorously than Ft. Knox, for good reason. The second problem is that they have no reason or use for parking space for 1000 cars and similar # of support vehicles nearby, so there is no place to hold a paddock. Third it is located in Dueling Banjo, SC with few hotels and even fewer places to eat. Fourth they are on the east coast which would have everyone west of the Mississippi crying foul.

Some of the area suggested by the SCCA questionaire: i.e. WI, etc would IMHO be a poor choice no matter how good the facility due to the unpredictability of the weather in the northern climes in Sept.

Maybe SCCA needs to approach the casino owners in Las Vegas. Guaranteeing them 2000 people would be visiting for a week, they would likely be sending out the bulldozers the next day! Heck they are willing to spend 10s of thousands of $$ to buy a piece of burnt toast!

BTW 2000 visitors in Vegas is like 2 visitors in Topeka.  Nobody would notice.

They don't need to pave anything new. They already have "vast tracts of (paved) land."  I'd guess that just one parking lot at Las Vegas Speedway is 140+ acres. 

David, I absolutely agree that 2000 SCCA members spread out over 1 week would not amount to a hill of beans to the city of Las Vegas. Hell, if EVERYBODY showed up at the casinos at the Bellagio Casino floor, they would barely know the difference !!!!!!!! That said, I would LOVE to see at least a FEW Nationals hosted there. Yes, the east coast guys would have some more driving to do (for sure), but what a spot for fun and food before and after ones run days. Other than the drive for some we would have space, facilities, weather, food, housing, and just about everything else desired for a National event that might be desired.

But, I am betting on a lower midwest location. We'll see, won't we? Hopefully SCCA will settle on a location WAY in advance of the 2009 dates. Although HPT is less than 90 minutes from my house (where somebody MAY park their car/rig between the KC National Tour and the Nations - send PM if interested) I will be HAPPY not to bother the poor suffering abused ownership of HPT. I DO feel bad for the hit Topeka will incur, but all I can say to HPT is SEE YA !!! Hopefully, even the Kansas Region can move the Divisional as well.

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Bob Buxbaum
Lee's Summit, Mo.

snaponbob:

...but what a spot for fun and food before and after ones run days. Other than the drive for some we would have space, facilities, weather, food, housing, and just about everything else desired for a National event that might be desired.

And the other nightlife would make Babydolls look like a Senior Center.

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Matt Murray

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today.

mattm:

snaponbob:

...but what a spot for fun and food before and after ones run days. Other than the drive for some we would have space, facilities, weather, food, housing, and just about everything else desired for a National event that might be desired.

And the other nightlife would make Babydolls look like a Senior Center.

 As God, Paul Newman, and Mark donahue are my witnesses, I would not know.

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Bob Buxbaum
Lee's Summit, Mo.

Las Vegas?  That's 17 MORE HOURS from the east coast.  Still, I'd consider driving the extra distance and plan on a two week vacation in Vegas.  That would be a lot of fun, but the drive home would BLOW.  :(

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Jer
1993 MR2 #196 ES
2005 Lotus Elise (retired)
1999 Dodge 4X4 tow vehicle
1993 Miata (just tired)
1987 Corolla Lemons car
1984 Citation Lemons car

Surferjer:

That's 17 MORE HOURS from the east coast. 

And Rob would still want to drive straight through.  

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Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

neither the Tirerack or Michelin sites will cut it for Nats

 the only true solution is to build a dedicated site, unfortunately the people who make this decision are still sitting on their hands and the final cost to do so only compounds over time

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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

Surferjer:

Las Vegas?  That's 17 MORE HOURS from the east coast.  Still, I'd consider driving the extra distance and plan on a two week vacation in Vegas.  That would be a lot of fun, but the drive home would BLOW.  :(

The only time the drive home is not awful is when there a first place trophy in the backseat.

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Matt Murray

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today.

I

I personally refuse to go to a defecated site.  A site with that crap on the ground is not acceptable.

And the compounds that would be on such a site.....well needless to say the food vendors wouldn't do much business, as a defecated site is a most appetite crushing proposition.

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Trying to get faster

David Lehman:

I

I personally refuse to go to a defecated site.  A site with that crap on the ground is not acceptable.

And the compounds that would be on such a site.....well needless to say the food vendors wouldn't do much business, as a defecated site is a most appetite crushing proposition.

Funny you should mention that.  In Sioux Falls, South Dakota, there is a fairly large site covered with goose sh1t.  Not big enough for nationals, but certainly the most defecated site I have ever seen.   

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- Chris DeLay
DS 2000 Acura ITR
Lucky Lugnut Racing

Ahhh.... the gooseshit nationals....I remember it fondly....

Now back to the originally scheduled program.

I want this site: http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=40.5226729&lon=-89.0528584&z=17&l=0&m=a&v=2

 

aansorge:

I want this site: http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=40.5226729&lon=-89.0528584&z=17&l=0&m=a&v=2

You want what appears to be a moderate-sized dirt lot in Ft. Collins, Colorado? 

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Steve Garnjobst
#75 XP
'99 Mazda Mutant