SCCAForums.com

The only facility large enough in KC besides Arrowhead, is the former Richards-Gebauer Air Force Base in Grandview, MO.  It is not available because it is being converted to a multi-modal freight terminal.  RGAFB would have been a great site.  The main ramp is a trapezoid 700' across with a short side of 2000' and a long side of 2700'.  The paddock area could have been on the taxiways north of the ramp.

---

2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee

Howdy,

TX area around Dallas sounds good to me.

Better/warmer weather and towing distance is "similar"

Mark

edit:  Great job to the SCCA for moving the runoffs.  Road America is a track with some great history that folks will want to go to, plus community support for races.  Its too bad HPT didn't grow into a good runoffs venue, but there's no reason to stay the course when the course isn't going anywhere.

I hear everyone complaining about HPT (most are justifiable), but everyone is failing to note the good things.

Real bathrooms, nice tech building w/ scales, garages for those who want them, a smooth surface that doesn't loosen fillings or need to be patched as the day goes along... 

If we go back to a parking lot somewhere we are most likely going to loose some of this stuff.

I assume we were paying rent at Forbes, and I assume it would be less than what we would pay at HPT, but do we have any idea the difference?

Personally, I like Topeka.  It's not like it's a place that has nothing, there are plenty of restaurants/hotels/etc in the area, but it's not to crazy big that we have to deal with traffic and waiting wherever you go. 

---

Jason Frank
Bridgestone / datatoys.com / Redshift Motorsports STS Civic Si

TeamUndercoatRacing.com

I agree about the good things at HPT and Topeka.

I assume we were paying rent at Forbes, and I assume it would be less than what we would pay at HPT, but do we have any idea the difference?

No.  We paid nothing for either site. 

I think the rate is $3k per day or more for the lot at HPT, not including Ambulance or other burden of labor charges.  Can Nationals entry growth continue if entry fees need to raise enough to absorb $40-50K lot rental?  I don't know if competitors would take that or not....I would pay it for investment in a good racing surface, but would have trouble paying that for HPT's surface. 

DaveW

Surferjer:

I keep hearing KC (perhaps Arrowhead Stadium).  That would work if we could have the run of the place.  Obviously it would have to be around the Chief's schedule; maybe we could have Nationals in August! 

 

Remember Arrowhead is part of a sports complex that also has Kauffman stadium on the same parking lot which is for the Royals. So even if the managers of the complex would let us use more lots you would be planning around not one but two team schedules.

---

Brian Harmer
SCCA Solo Technical Assistant
Solo National Rules: http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo%20Rules/2008_Solo_Rules_2.pdf
FastTrack: http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=78

bharmer:

Surferjer:

I keep hearing KC (perhaps Arrowhead Stadium).  That would work if we could have the run of the place.  Obviously it would have to be around the Chief's schedule; maybe we could have Nationals in August! 

 

Remember Arrowhead is part of a sports complex that also has Kauffman stadium on the same parking lot which is for the Royals. So even if the managers of the complex would let us use more lots you would be planning around not one but two team schedules.

 Not to mention that both stadiums are being renovated and not scheduled to be done for a few years.   Also, we can not start until 10:00 AM, due to the proximity of surrounding neighborhoods,  and I REALLY don't think they would take a week of autocross well :)   That being said... I'd love to see it there!

---

Shawn Hill
07 Mini Cooper HS
Kansas City Region SCCA

Both stadiums are currently undergoing massive renovations.  Some parking lots will be closed for storage of construction materials and equipment.  The Kansas City Region is concerned that they might lose the use of Lot L to employee parking.

---

2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee

47CP:

I think the rate is $3k per day or more for the lot at HPT, not including Ambulance or other burden of labor charges.  Can Nationals entry growth continue if entry fees need to raise enough to absorb $40-50K lot rental?  I don't know if competitors would take that or not....I would pay it for investment in a good racing surface, but would have trouble paying that for HPT's surface. 

DaveW

I'm not a big fan of HPT, but would $50 added to the entry fee really be significant compared to the total cost of competing at the event?  That's assuming HPT would even give us that good of a deal after moving the runoffs...

Dave G. 

Andy Hollis:

Furthermore,  Solo does not pay for HPT.  We are an add-on clause to the Runoffs being there.  We generate no cash for HPT other than incidentals like concessions and RV/golf-cart fees.  The Runoffs have TV which generates cash, as well as spectators.  And much more in incidentals (have a look at the fees the club racers pay).  HPT is not a charity.  We will not be there for free.  Which means we will not be there past 2008.

So where does all our money go???

I don't mind paying my fees for Nationals, but I figured it actually *paid* for something... 

---

DS #313 | the rolling couch of doom | La-Z-Boy Racing

47CP:

No.  We paid nothing for either site. 

I think the rate is $3k per day or more for the lot at HPT, not including Ambulance or other burden of labor charges.  Can Nationals entry growth continue if entry fees need to raise enough to absorb $40-50K lot rental?  I don't know if competitors would take that or not....I would pay it for investment in a good racing surface, but would have trouble paying that for HPT's surface. 

DaveW

I see, not to sound negative, but I think that sooner or later the 'free lots' are going to dry up and entry fees are going to have to go up.

The largest complaint that I see is the sand, does anyone else have experience with their new local lots having this issue?  I have heard that Miller Park has similar issues when we first started having events at the site (I wasn't around then), we have no such issue at this point... maybe we just need to have more events on the surface.  If we were to find another fresh lot are we going to run into the same issues? 

---

Jason Frank
Bridgestone / datatoys.com / Redshift Motorsports STS Civic Si

TeamUndercoatRacing.com

murph1379:

So where does all our money go???

I don't mind paying my fees for Nationals, but I figured it actually *paid* for something... 

I've wondered this before, but a quick tally of what banquets and trophies cost answers the question pretty quickly.  Price out 2 banquets for 1000 people and then 500 trophies plus 70 jackets, etc. and do the math.

I'm not a big fan of HPT, but would $50 added to the entry fee really be significant compared to the total cost of competing at the event?  That's assuming HPT would even give us that good of a deal after moving the runoffs...

Dave G. 

I really don't know.  You are correct, $50 is a very small portion of the total expenditure to attend, but at some point, people will resist further increases.  I'd probably still run there for $50 more, but would think a lot harder about it.  I would have some reservations about "investing" in HPT at that rate, $30-$40-$50k per year would have to be enough money to open the door at another (better) site.

DaveW

47CP:

I've wondered this before, but a quick tally of what banquets and trophies cost answers the question pretty quickly.  Price out 2 banquets for 1000 people and then 500 trophies plus 70 jackets, etc. and do the math.

Don't forget insurance costs...

---

Jason Frank
Bridgestone / datatoys.com / Redshift Motorsports STS Civic Si

TeamUndercoatRacing.com

Mugenlude:

47CP:

I've wondered this before, but a quick tally of what banquets and trophies cost answers the question pretty quickly.  Price out 2 banquets for 1000 people and then 500 trophies plus 70 jackets, etc. and do the math.

Don't forget insurance costs...

Exactly.  My point was add up the stuff you spend money on to put on a divisional event, then multiply those costs by 10 or 20 for ~1100 entries and it is pretty easy to see where our entry money goes. 

DaveW

Mugenlude:

The largest complaint that I see is the sand, does anyone else have experience with their new local lots having this issue? 

 The size of the lot (and therefore the proximity of the courses to each other) is my biggest concern. 

---

Once you go Mac, you never go back!

When I answered the survey last Fall, my priorities for a site were these:

1) LARGE site with grippy surface in good shape

2) Hotels/food within 20 minutes.

That's it.  Sure, all that other stuff is nice and all, but if you cannot have a national-level competition, its all useless.  This isn't some marque club, where social outweighs competition.   

We've always figured out a way to make the social side work around whatever the site is.  But you can't have good (and safe) competition without a good site.

Back in the day, Salina was a great site in a small town with just a smattering of hotels and food.  But it was wonderful and we made it work.

--Andy 

talon95:

47CP:

I think the rate is $3k per day or more for the lot at HPT, not including Ambulance or other burden of labor charges.  Can Nationals entry growth continue if entry fees need to raise enough to absorb $40-50K lot rental?  I don't know if competitors would take that or not....I would pay it for investment in a good racing surface, but would have trouble paying that for HPT's surface. 

DaveW

I'm not a big fan of HPT, but would $50 added to the entry fee really be significant compared to the total cost of competing at the event?  That's assuming HPT would even give us that good of a deal after moving the runoffs...

Dave G. 

 For reference, we were quoted $4k/day, with ambulance, which you'd only need for 7 days (8 if HPT considered practice starts "dangerous"). Monday would be an ambulance-free day. The ambulance was quoted at $1250/day by itself. So, for 10 days total, it should be less than $40k, or less than $40/entrant.  Considering the cost of gas/diesel, it probably costs that much just driving to-from the motel for a week.

 If people were interested, I think that the city of Topeka sees enough economic benefit (through sales and bed tax) to make it worth their while to see that this event doesn't leave, especially after having lost the Runoffs.

 But, I don't think Ray wants the Solo Nationals there at any cost.  I could be wrong.
 

---

David Avard
89 Honda Civic Si black (STS)
07 Mazda 3s (HS?)

I would love to see Nationals at another site and answered the survey and wrote more than one letter expressing this. The bathrooms, tech building, scales are all nice.... but that is trumped by the main reason for being there, the autocrossing. The surface is too slippery, the sand sucks,  it is too slippery, the lots are too small (though the designs have been great at maxing them out); it is too slippery, the distance from grid is too far where we can't see the competition, and finally... it is too slippery.

 I would rather run at a place like Forbes with grip and happily give up the nice stuff that HPT gives us.

Solo is (IMHO) all about the driving and the community and I feel we lost a bit on both of those fronts when we went to HPT.

I loved when we ran Pros before at Denver because it was concrete. I loved the Lubbock site when we ran there...miles and miles of concrete. I love running at Wendover and Atwater... because of grippy concrete.

 

Just my 2 cents. 

---

2006 Noble M400 (E-Mod?)
CHASECAM the global leader in motorsport video acqusition. We innovate, not copy or import. Official supplier to SCCA Pro Racing. Sponsor for SCCA ProSolo. Supplier to MazdaSpeed, V8Supercars, etc.

having been to heartland park now, i can say that is completely unsuitable for nationals.  Not comparable at all to forbes.

i dont know too many other sites, but if nationals is going to happen, we better move it from HPT.

I know Houston has a lot that would be fantastic.  I am sure there are other old bases in the midwest that would work as well.

The real issue is we better start marketing, making the rules attractive to car enthusiasts, getting tv and spectators, and growing the sport -- or we wont be able to do it anymore at all, very soon.

 

 

Can we convince Road America to build a large parking lot?

If so, big bonfire at my place!  Karp can bring the entertainment.

---

Tim White
'91 ES MR2
Milwaukee Region

randychase:

I loved the Lubbock site when we ran there...miles and miles of concrete.

That one has been suggested to the powers-that-be, as has the Houston lot (Reed Road) that Ramey mentioned.  Both have major logistical/political/financial hurdles to overcome, but either would be good.  Weather would certainly be better than Kansas that time of year, though either would make the tow more difficult for folks from the upper corners of the country. 

--Andy