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Anyone have any experience with the new Hoosier R25B tires? The fronts are coded C2500 rather than C2000. These are the bias ply FF1600 sizes.

Stan Vann

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Stan Vann

I'm about to order a set for my B Mod. They do not make the R25A compound in my sizes anymore. I read a short discussion on the R25B over at the D/E Mod forum and the claims there were quicker heat up and longer life before going to mush.

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Joe Gonzalez
1979 Legrand DSR- B Mod
Gilbertsville, NY

I gave my new R25B their first test this weekend at a SCCA TT on the Jefferson Curcuit at Summit Point. I've driven this track a dozen times over the last 10 years and have a good baseline. I already had the record for FF1600 there so I was wondering how it would go. Conditions looked great with temps in the mid 70s and clear all weekend. So here is my experience: I had not scrubbed them in at all so I knew it would take a few laps to remove the mold release. However I had never had a tire take so many laps to scrub in. The first laps were over 5 seconds off my best time. We had a couple of oil downs so the track never really cleaned up all day Saturday. Sunday we ran a 20 min.practice on the new Shenadoah Curcuit. I had a little more understeer than usual but the tires started to hook up. We went back over to the TT and I ran one set of runs but was still off my best, but closer. I still had the trace of understeer. So I dialed in one turn of negative on both fronts and that did it. The next set of runs was right on the record and the last set was a full 1.2 seconds under the record on a 1.1 mile track. That car was hooked. I think these are a definate improvement. A friend of mine also saw greatly improved lap times with his R25Bs too. His had been scrubbed in the week before so worked well from the start. He also saw over a second improvement.

Stan Vann

1970 Caldwell D9

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Stan Vann

Hi Stan,

 Thanks for the information.  It is kind of scary info for an autocrosser though.  That was A LOT of scrubbing you did.  For autocross it sounds like 10 events!

 A question:  When you say you "dialed in one turn of negative", do you mean negative camber?

 

Thanks again,

Jim

 

Hi Jim,

   Usually I take new tires out to our local airport and scrub them in a bit before my first event on them. I just did not have time this time. I think it was more a issue with the Jefferson Curcuit being oily or dusty from lack of use. After my first session, a couple of cars oiled the entire racing line so it never improved all day Saturday. Dave Cutchins had a new set of R25Bs and had run a three run autocross the previous weekend at the Danville, VA airport and he was quick off the trailer. So I don't think it is a big issue. As for the camber change, I rotated the inner rod end one complete turn on the front upper links for a bit more negative camber to dial out the slight understeer. After the mold release was removed and the understeer cured it hooked up great. Conditions were perfect Sunday and the times showed it. I like them.

   I really wish you lived closer, so you could join us at the Mid-Atlantic C Mod Shootout we are setting up for July at Danville, VA. It is a effort to help promote the class and these great cars. I just don't think many folks realize how cost effective and fun FF1600s are. We have 6 signed up as of today and I'm hoping for a couple more that I know of. As you know you never improve without some good competition to gauge yourself off of. Running for PAX is OK but just not the same. We think we will put on a good show, running together in the same heat.

Stan

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Stan Vann

Stan,

 Please post details about that event.  Sounds great.  Maybe some of us will try to head down and make a short vacation out of it.

 

Jim 

Jim,

   Here is the thread that started it all. http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/300881/ShowThread.aspx  Registration and more info is here: http://myautoevents.com/pls/mae/frmEventDetail.Show?psevent_id=9138

It would be great to have you and anyone else come down to join us. It is always a super weekend. Sort of a Virginia State Championship weekend.

Stan

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Stan Vann

My R25B's finally came in and I had them out this past weekend at SeAD. Only had one driver this time and it seemed to take the first three runs just to get all the release scuffed out.

After that they seemed to grip better in the initial corners than the 25A's ever did but it did not seem like I could get enough heat into them to really stick with just the one driver on the 55 second course. It was an 80 degree day so that worries me some. So far the jury is still out. 

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Joe Gonzalez
1979 Legrand DSR- B Mod
Gilbertsville, NY

My 25b tires came in  within one lap, that was on a 1400lb Dmod car, must be those super light cars that need more time to get them scrubbed in and warmed up.

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Jesus Villarreal
D mod Europa

Some good news is at the second event with these R25Bs, the Wolf Ridge Hillclimb, I took 6 seconds off my time from last year and got my first King of the Hill (FTD). Of course George Bowland was not entered in The Shark but I did have 4 FF1600s , a FF2000 and the former OA record holder from the Chimney Rock Hillclimb entered. Needless to say I'm a happy customer. Here's one of the runs from Saturday which was 2 seconds off my best Sunday.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVUZCQb3ulA

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Stan Vann

svann:

I took 6 seconds off my time from last year

Stan, were you going UP the hill or DOWN? 

Congratulations, great time!

Just wondering, were there other factors contributing to those 6 seconds?  Improvements in other parts of car?  Learning the course better?  Better atmospheric conditions?  Improved road conditions?  New supercharger?

Congrats again,

Jim

 

Jim,

Given your very good PAX at the Devens Tour, which Hoosier version were you running?

Dick

Hi Dick,

I was running my '07 Nationals tires at Devens.  R25A.  They had been scrubbed at a local event in early Sept and then got 13 runs (1 rerun) at Topeka. 

I started this season with an abundance of good tires left over from '07.  For once, that wasn't a good thing because I won't be trying the new tires until August.  Hopefully they won't alter the car's balance, but that's asking a lot because every time Hoosier changes their tires, the balance changes.  But these are supposed to just be different compounds.  I'll guess I'll find out.

Jim 

Thanks, Jim. Really it was mostly a combo of all those things, (except the supercharger) but I'd say finally learning the course was the biggest thing. Coming from autocross, I normally can learn one in a day but this hill has so many blind corners that look so much alike and the pavement has many different cambers, crowns and dips, that I just did not have it figured out. We raced here last year but I never was comfortable and could not close my eyes and picture it until this year on Saturday night. I've got it now. I have to give some credit to the tires, as well, however.

 Now with our little C Mod Shootout coming up in a few weeks at Danville, VA, I should know more. I haven't run a autocross with them as yet. BTW, I just got the winners trophy in this week and it is very impressive. It's a 10" silver Revere Bowl mounted on a mahogany base. I got the idea from one of George Bowland's King of the Hill trophies he has. I always thought it was the best looking of all his hardware. Sort of like they use to award at the SCCA National Runoffs. I'll post a photo of it in a day or two. I do wish I could get a few more entries to sign up. http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/frmEventDetail.Show?psevent_id=9138

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Stan Vann

I'd love to go but between the time needed and the gas prices, it's not to be.   I'm thinking that in the future, I'm going to attend less events, but make them all Tours/Pros/Nationals & some special events like yours.

 

Jim

 

Anyone run R25B's at the Peru Tour in CM or BM? CM and BM (assuming only one day was dry for B) did rather well in PAX.

Dick

 

Dick-

I think virtually the whole field was on B's.  The grip at Peru, however, is such that it can mask other handling issues.  In other words it is not an accurate reflection of the performance of the new tire.  Milw on asphalt will be more representative. 

As far as index goes, we were always on competitve on concrete, but w/ the PAX adjustment this year, our relative poor performance on asphalt has finally been adjusted for.

Peter 

 

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Peter Calhoun
Pace American, Inc.

Official Trailer of SCCA & MAZDASPEED
"What does your trailer company do on weekends?"

I've had some issues with them going off a bit early. I have a set on my FF That were new in April, and were run once in May, once in June for a total of 32 runs. Yesterday we went out and the car was no longer as planted as it was those first 2 events. We attempted to chase down pressures and rake, bot things were still off. We ran 20 runs yesterday, and are thinking these things are probably on the way out.

Does anyone else have data on how long and how many heat cycles it takes to kill these things?

Have you run the R25A's in the past?  The reason I ask is because if you are just starting out in the class and don't have any comparison with the A's, then it could be your car that killed the tires early.  At various times my car has been ill handling, either end.  During those times, tires at that end would go off very quickly.  In my experience (ymmv) the better the car handles, the longer the tires will last but the rears usually start giving up first and I have to begin adjusting the bars to keep up with the gradual loss of rear grip until one day I go to an event and I'm sideways regardless of what I try.  On the R25A's with at least a reasonably good handling car, that usually happened after 6 to 10 events.  (I usually count each event as a heat cycle although sometimes it's two).  But then I know other CM drivers who get alot more time out of their tires.  Maybe they are more adaptive.  I don't know.

I only just obtained my first set of R25B's so I don't have any information for you regarding them.

Maybe someone has some hard information for you.

 

 

Nope, I have never driven on a good set of 'A' compounds, just some old ones. While I am starting out in the class, the car is not, and has ben run with the As for many a season with much success.

Before this last event, there were no handling issues. Car exhibited mild understeer tendancies, which for me is fairly safe. Now the car seems somewhat loose in transitions on both ends. I will be re-checking my damper preassures just to rule that out tho.