SCCAForums.com

I've wanted to build a street prepared car for the past few years, but the big thing there is money, and I hope to still do so after college.  I currently drive a 99 VW Jetta, no huge performer but I thought I would have some fun on a budget with my daily driver, learn a few things and get into SCCA now rather than later and get this car in a few SOLO II events this summer.  Right now the car has nothing infringing on the rulebooks but there are a few things I want to take care of before I try it in an event. One thing being stainless steel brake lines. I know the lines have to be DOT approved, but what exactly makes a line DOT approved? The most cost effective option for me is to get brake lines made for me, but does a DOT approved brakeline have a DOT stamp or something on it that would be checked at tech inspection?

 Also, I noticed camber plates are legal, and I really should invest into some option to adjust my camber since camber is not adjustable at all on my model. However, available for my car are adjustible ball joints that can help correct any camber issues I have, but these ball joints also correct the control arm geometry which is probably the biggest hinderances to handling on my car. Are these legal?

 And from the rule book, a coilover sleeve from Ground Control would be illegal for STS, correct?

I run wheel spacers on the street, would it be legal for me to leave the front spacers on for an event? The rulebook said the wheel could have any offset, but I wasnt sure if that excluded the use of a spacer.

 Thanks a bunch.

By brake lines, I assume you mean the short flexible braided SS brake line at each wheel, not the entire brake line system.  This is what the rule addresses.  You cannot make your own flexible lines that I know of.  (Certainly won't be DOT approved if you did.)  These are off the shelf items sold at retailers, and anything sold at a retailer will be DOT approved.  (I believe there's usually a sticker on the part with the DOT stuff.)  If your talking about the hard piping of your entire braking system, the rules do not have any allowances, and I can't imagine why you would need to change that.  (The only reason I say this is because you talking about making your own makes me think that this is what you are referring to....making your own hard lines.) 

Camber plates and control arm type camber adjustment are both legal, but not at the same time.  See 14.8.I.2.  You would need to select one method and use that.  Coilover sleeves are permitted.  You can use wheel spacers. 

Don't feel like you *need* to do any these things before you try it at an event.  I say enter it in Stock class, or your local Novice class, just the way the car is now and just get out there and give the car a try.  You may learn what mods are better bang for the buck.  Hope that helps, and good luck!!

eurotrashed:

However, available for my car are adjustible ball joints that can help correct any camber issues I have, but these ball joints also correct the control arm geometry which is probably the biggest hinderances to handling on my car. Are these legal?

 Do you have a link to these ball joints? I've been looking for some. The only thing I've seen to correct front geometry is aftermarket hubs with the ball joint location moved down.

Clayton

Yes, I do mean the short flexible brake lines. The ones I could have made are probably better than off the shelf, I just wasn't sure how well they enforce the DOT rule. I know inspection stations rarely look for the DOT stamp on lighting on all the ecode lighting VW drivers retrofit.

 My car is already modded enough to run STS class, I need to address the brake lines and get some better fluid in there before I try running the car, there are a few other things I want to take care of too so I won't look totally aweful (like sway bars)

 I actually got my products confused, its not an adjustable ball joint, its a ball joint extender and can be found on this page:

http://www.pmwltd.com/products.php

This is legal?

Here is a list of all camber, ball joint and control arm mods for you, leftme:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1432095

on your front driver, the rear antisway is more important than the front.

If you're gonna make a go at STS, the best upgrades I've made so far are the rear antisway & light wheels/sticky tires - that is after driving school...that made the biggest difference.

yeah, i know a 28mm rear sway is optimal for this car, I want to do the front too though. Basically I'm going to do ever legal mod for the STS class and my car is well on its way of being there from the past 5 years of tinkering with it. I know there are a lot of cars better than my car so I am going to try and do everything to get my car anywhere close of being up to par.

 I know you can relocte the battery, is a lightweight battery legal?

see here's the thing... drive it like it is, and THEN add your adjustable bits, so then you know what the modifications are doing to your handling. I know you WANT a front sway bar, but honestly, on some front-drivers with factory bars, we remove them to get rid of push. if you throw a bunch of parts on it without a baseline, you might be building a car with evil handling without even knowing it.

more bits does not equal better handling, it's the balance of the bits, the setup itself. you can have exactly the same parts as the fastest guy, but unless you know how to make them work for you and your driving style, you might not get along with the car.

i see it all the time, novice driver breaks the bank on bits and thinks his car is junk because he's turning slow times. It's not the car!! the best thing you can do, especially in the long run, get in the habit of making one change at a time. the fastest drivers know exactly what each change does to their handling.

trust us!!

Just because I am new to SCCA please don't assume that I am new to modding my car, or that I don't know how to get this car to handle.  I am mostly concerned of keeping everything legal, thats why I am asking questions. I know doing a rear sway will get me the most affects on better handling, but I also know doing both sway bars is the best way to get this chassis feeling right (bigger sway in the rear of course), i've experinced cars with several setups.  There are VW people that take out their front sways on MKIVs because they have an obsession of going low and remove them for clearence instead of buying an aftermarket bar. They say it handles better because some of the "push" is gone, but then after awhile they buy aftermarket sway bars, I can't remember exactly the problems they were running into without a front swaybar, i just know everything got messed up and they had a better handling car with a proper swaybar setup. And if balljoint extenders are legal, I forsee possible clearance issues with my stock sway bar. So I plan on something like an H-sport 27mm front and 30mm rear. I'm hardly going to break the bank getting this car ready.

 My current performance mods:

WRD rear engine mount, prothane front sway bar bushings, ATE front rotors and zimmerman rear rotors, fk shocks/struts and springs, magnaflow catback, k&n airfilter

plans:

new pads, braided lines, ATE brake fluid, front and rear swaybar, stickier tires and sell my Audi TT wheels for Slipstreams (12lb saving per wheel). Run spacers on just the front wheels

Then run the car in a few events and get: balljoint extenders (if legal), some sort of camber adjustment (which I need even if i never autocross again since i am tired of being at too much negative camber and killing tires), eurosport crank underdrive pully, Neuspeed chip, Deka ETX30 battery and remove the restrictive stock pipes going to the airbox and run a hose that can go through one of my extra set of headlights. Koni Yellows and GC coilover sleeves.

eurotrashed:

I actually got my products confused, its not an adjustable ball joint, its a ball joint extender and can be found on this page:

http://www.pmwltd.com/products.php

Clayton

leftme:

eurotrashed:

I actually got my products confused, its not an adjustable ball joint, its a ball joint extender and can be found on this page:

http://www.pmwltd.com/products.php

I don't think the extender is for the later cars, I thought it was for the MK1 & MK2s.

 

Clayton

 Thats what the thread on vortex says, but all it says in that website is that they are for any VW with 17mm or 19mm ball joints. I'm not exactly sure whats on the MKIV, I'm going to check it out when it stops raining. But anyway, I would be surprised if it would fit a MKII and not a MKIII since there is quite a bit of the suspension carried over between those two generations. And since my car is actually an early MKIV and I do have a fair bit of MKIII parts on my car, who knows what could actually be on my car.

I didn't mean to offend you or imply that i think you know nothing about mods, but SCCA solo is so much more about the driver than the car.

we do appreciate your attempts to be legal, we're just trying to encourage you to get out and drive it regardless of what parts you hang on the car.

scarrie:

I didn't mean to offend you or imply that i think you know nothing about mods, but SCCA solo is so much more about the driver than the car.

we do appreciate your attempts to be legal, we're just trying to encourage you to get out and drive it regardless of what parts you hang on the car.

gotcha.

Fast cars drag race, fast drivers autocross.

I would not feel comfortable autocrossing my car right now, brakes get too soft too fast when I throw it around on back roads and then there is the understeer.  They say a good set of sway bars is the best investment for my car. But it shouldn't be long though, just need a few paychecks.

and can anyone confirm if ball joint extensions are legal? I got my MKIV and a MKI outside so I am going to compare them tomorrow and hopefully those extensions I posted would work, and hopefully they are legal because I think they would take a lot of my car's handicap away.

This is my boy racer mobile as it sits now:

redwhale240:

Sticky tires will be the #1 investment.

eurotrashed:

and can anyone confirm if ball joint extensions are legal?

Strut suspensions only get one form of camber adjustment though.   Pretty sure 14.8.I covers this.  Ball joint extenders are not specifically mentioned, but you are allowed adjustable length control arms, which this sounds like.

Just curious, you mentioned you want less negative camber.  (While most people are usually looking for more)  Wouldn't extending the ball joint give you more negative camber?  Maybe I'm not thinking about your suspension right...I don't know much about those cars.  I like the hunkered down look though....nice!

eurotrashed:

some sort of camber adjustment (which I need even if i never autocross again since i am tired of being at too much negative camber and killing tires)

You have too much camber? How much do you have?

I have too much camber for the street thats for sure, who knows, maybe this camber would actually help me in autocross though. My tires will look normal at 10,000 miles from the outside, but the inside edge is always super bald. So I would like some type of adjustment so I don't wear through tires on the street but then I can get some negative camber for events.

 Sucks about the ball joint extenders though, guess I will just have to invest money in some GC coilover sleeves instead so I can raise it up a bit and get my control arm sitting right again.