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Orthonormal:

Yep, banished...to that 0.5s/45s space between a top SS car and a top AS car.

So you'll be writing to the letter to the SAC/SEB to get the M3 moved to A Stock?

To be classed in SS is insane.  A C5 Z06 weighs over 500 lbs less, has a shorter wheelbase and a TON more torque/broad powerband, etc.

I'm not even sure the E90/E92 M3 would be a top contender (much less class killer) in A-stock given its weight and size, poor camber profile up front, etc.

CSBM5:

To be classed in SS is insane.  A C5 Z06 weighs over 500 lbs less, has a shorter wheelbase and a TON more torque/broad powerband, etc.

I'm not even sure the E90/E92 M3 would be a top contender (much less class killer) in A-stock given its weight and size, poor camber profile up front, etc.

Yeah, this seems like a huge mistake to me too. Everything I have read about the new M3 is that it is a little faster 0-60 (not much), but significantly faster at high mph (which obviously won't matter in Solo). Handling feels more refined, but the weight increase is going to kill it. AS was defintely the spot for this car, and as stated, I still don't see it beating up on S2000s - probably a good battle, but certainly not a class killer. In AS it could have been a contender (more so than the e46), but in SS it will be slaughtered.

The Nebulizer:

CSBM5:

To be classed in SS is insane.  A C5 Z06 weighs over 500 lbs less, has a shorter wheelbase and a TON more torque/broad powerband, etc.

I'm not even sure the E90/E92 M3 would be a top contender (much less class killer) in A-stock given its weight and size, poor camber profile up front, etc.

Yeah, this seems like a huge mistake to me too. Everything I have read about the new M3 is that it is a little faster 0-60 (not much), but significantly faster at high mph (which obviously won't matter in Solo). Handling feels more refined, but the weight increase is going to kill it. AS was defintely the spot for this car, and as stated, I still don't see it beating up on S2000s - probably a good battle, but certainly not a class killer. In AS it could have been a contender (more so than the e46), but in SS it will be slaughtered.

Doesnt this thing come with enough wheel to run 295/315 tires?  Seems like that might make up for some weight ineptitudes.  Nevermind 400+hp with a diff, and BMW's ability to make heavier cars handle.  I dont disagree with the fact that it will not likely compete with the top cars in SS, but it has the potential to upset the applecart in an already very well prescribed A-Stock class.  At what looks like at least $60k delivered, I dont agree with the mindset that its ok to throw it in where it might become the car to have.  The current crop of top AS cars are half that price(or less if you go with a used S2k or a Vette).

I obviously have a dog in this fight, but I think the class is in really good shape right now, and we just added some new blood(CR and Solstice) to the mix, I'm for letting that shake out a little before making potential changes to the competitive landscape again.

I don't think it could be competitive in AS.  It's too heavy, can't get enough camber, and can't really put all that power down most places.  It probably also is too softly sprung for an AS car.  It may be competitive in BS, but I don't think the SCCA wants to destroy a popular spec class with a car that out-dollars everything there by a 2-to-1 margin.

Just like the Lexus IS-F, it got classed in SS based on power numbers alone. 

DaveH:

I don't think it could be competitive in AS.  It's too heavy, can't get enough camber, and can't really put all that power down most places.  It probably also is too softly sprung for an AS car.  It may be competitive in BS, but I don't think the SCCA wants to destroy a popular spec class with a car that out-dollars everything there by a 2-to-1 margin.

The Acura NSX was going for $89k new. The Porsche Cayman is $50k. Mercedes SLK55 is $64k. An S2000 is still $34,300. I don't think your 2 to 1 margin works.

BTW, an M3 sedan, nicely equipped (heated seats for those of us in a northern clime), is about $56k.

mattm:

DaveH:

I don't think it could be competitive in AS.  It's too heavy, can't get enough camber, and can't really put all that power down most places.  It probably also is too softly sprung for an AS car.  It may be competitive in BS, but I don't think the SCCA wants to destroy a popular spec class with a car that out-dollars everything there by a 2-to-1 margin.

The Acura NSX was going for $89k new. The Porsche Cayman is $50k. Mercedes SLK55 is $64k. An S2000 is still $34,300. I don't think your 2 to 1 margin works.

But none of them are competitive in AS.  If any one of those cars had a hope of actually winning a national championship in AS they wouldn't be there.  I'm guessing the reason the M3 is in SS is because it actually may be competitive in AS.  I doubt it, but I guess the thought is why mess with a really popular class?

I wouldn't object to seeing the M3 in AS.  I don't think it can win. 

And the 2-1 margin was between the M3 and the RX-8.  

DaveH:

But none of them are competitive in AS.  If any one of those cars had a hope of actually winning a national championship in AS they wouldn't be there.  I'm guessing the reason the M3 is in SS is because it actually may be competitive in AS.  I doubt it, but I guess the thought is why mess with a really popular class?

The Cayman and S2000 aren't competitive? 

John V:

The Cayman and S2000 aren't competitive? 

Naw, they're has beens.

John V:

DaveH:

But none of them are competitive in AS.  If any one of those cars had a hope of actually winning a national championship in AS they wouldn't be there.  I'm guessing the reason the M3 is in SS is because it actually may be competitive in AS.  I doubt it, but I guess the thought is why mess with a really popular class?

The Cayman and S2000 aren't competitive? 

I'll give you the Cayman.  I didn't realize one trophied at Nationals last year.  But can we agree its not "the car to have?"

And please don't deliberately misinterpret what I wrote.

DaveH:

I don't think it could be competitive in AS.  It's too heavy, can't get enough camber, and can't really put all that power down most places.  It probably also is too softly sprung for an AS car.  It may be competitive in BS, but I don't think the SCCA wants to destroy a popular spec class with a car that out-dollars everything there by a 2-to-1 margin.

Just like the Lexus IS-F, it got classed in SS based on power numbers alone. 

Yet the 135 gets dumped into DS.....?? power numbers kill the rest of the class, almost double what some cars in the class have. It has the same bad camber, weight stuff against it as well.

DaveH:

I'll give you the Cayman.  I didn't realize one trophied at Nationals last year.  But can we agree its not "the car to have?"

And please don't deliberately misinterpret what I wrote.

How many people have campaigned the Cayman?  Two (one car)?  I'll agree that the lemming's aren't going to pick it.  There are cheaper, more proven choices. 

If I misinterpreted what you wrote, it wasn't intentional.  The point of your post wasn't entirely clear to me.

DaveH:

Sorry, I thought it was clear that "none of them" meant the SLK, Cayman, and the NSX, being that they were offered up as the expensive cars in AS.  The S2000 is obviously competitive (as I found out last weekend in Atlanta). 

I'll grant you that the SLK might not be effective (but fun to try it, anyone got one I can co-drive?). A Zanardi Edition NSX could have done the trick a few years ago. But who wants to chance dragging out an NSX in the first place (you could retro fit the Zanardi stuff). No one thought a 968 was competitive until I ran one. First Gen Boxster S is not cheap either. My point was that classing by MSRP does not work as well any more. And why is a Supra Turbo in A Stock? 

AS or SS...... what about FS?

Hmmm almost 4000lbs. Big V-8 , No camber , Relatively soft suspension, smallish wheels (well this one doesn't apply).  Sounds like a E39 M5 at 3x the price.... which goes to F-Stock.... hmmmm  

(and I bet the shelby would still give it a solid run for it's money... but then again that's an A-stock car.)  

Mrsideways:

AS or SS...... what about FS?  

Whatever car Ian drives belongs in SM2.  IMHO 

 In fact maybe we should be classing the drivers not the cars...just kidding.

mattm:

Orthonormal:

Yep, banished...to that 0.5s/45s space between a top SS car and a top AS car.

So you'll be writing to the letter to the SAC/SEB to get the M3 moved to A Stock?

The Nebulizer:

In AS it could have been a contender (more so than the e46),

Orthonormal:

The E46 is a pretty good contender in AS, it's just that nobody since Josh Sirota has given it a serious try. 

Most of the posts I have read point to limitations of the stock e46 M3 (camber, weight/springs, thin front wheels/understeer) that keep it from being more than modestly competitive in AS. I have little knowledge of who is driving them though. But, given that the M3 is a popular car on the track, I would think if it was capable of being competitive it would be used more frequently in AS. I know of one competitive driver that gave it a shot but switched to the S2000. It just seems hard to believe a sports car like the M3 would not have had significant attempts made to be competitive in AS - its not like it is an odd car or one driven commonly by non-racer types. If you own an M3, it is your duty to do some sort of competitive driving.