SCCAForums.com

marka:

Howdy,

Jim G:

As Nate wrote above, all the clubs using Ft. Devens had no idea that complaints were being lodged until after they were almost kicked out.  They all thought their (lack of a) sound control program was working fine, or as you wrote, "Dude, we _have_ a plan to deal with the sound should a problem come up.  Its the same plan every region should have and it states 'do whatever the hell makes the lot owner happy'. "    But there are times when the lot owner is unhappy and doesn't tell you until the decision is made for you to leave.

I dunno about you folks, but we talk to our lot owners all the freaking time, before and after events.  If they're gonna keep a concern like that, big enough for them to want to shut down a site, under covers in that kinda environment than nothing I can do is going to eliminate the "site owner went bonkers" problem.  I'm not going to start lining up hoops to jump through just to practice for an event that may well never happen. 

marka:

 

Going back to an earlier point I made, subjecting corner workers to high noise levels is just not reasonable.  In addition to the discomfort, people end up holding their fingers in their ears and concentrating on the assault rather than on the cones.

On the planet I'm on, ear plugs are readily available and people have the ability to hold their fingers over their ears _and_ still use their eyes.  Painting this as a safety concern is completely ludicrous.  As a possible site retention issue?  Maybe.  Reasonable people could disagree on that one (even though you're wrong.  :-)  But as a safety issue?  Are you freaking kidding me?

We might as well ban waxed silver cars too, because if I look at them just right the reflecting sun blinds me and I could lose my vision.

 And what planet is that?

General Default:

Do we want to mandate equipment like this on what few mod cars that

are out there.  It should stay as a region only requirement.

Although I agree that the recommended sound procedure is sufficient, and the regions can choose their own limits, your example was bogus.

On the other hand, if your car is so loud that I have to wear earplugs while working course, you need to get it quieted down.  You know who you are, E Prepared Neon! 

General Default:

Do we want to mandate equipment like this on what few mod cars that

are out there.

Bad example.  San Diego has one of the most restrictive sound limits in the nation.  Many mod cars drivers don't go to San Diego because of it.  A national standard would not be written to that level of restriction.

Howdy,

Jim G:

Bad example.  San Diego has one of the most restrictive sound limits in the nation.  Many mod cars drivers don't go to San Diego because of it.  A national standard would not be written to that level of restriction.

Really?

From the perspective of someone that doesn't have, need, or want a sound restriction now but who seems to be getting a sound restriction shoved down his throat anyway, exactly why should I believe that someone won't decide to impose the San Diego restriction on me as well?

My proposed limit is 150db at 150'.  Its easy to say and remember, and its a limit I can 100% endorse for all national events.

Mark

Jim G:

Bad example.  San Diego has one of the most restrictive sound limits in the nation.  Many mod cars drivers don't go to San Diego because of it.  A national standard would not be written to that level of restriction.

Thanks for pointing that out.  My intent on the use of the picture was to illustrate some of the issues and challenges mod/P cars might have creating an exhaust system to meet a new standard. 

FMod cars have maximum length limits.  Most are close to the limit.  The exhaust pipe is sometimes a limiting issue already on length.  Changing the pipe can also change the CVT setups and jetting.  Yes these things can be over come but at a cost to members and or a Solo rule change on car lengths.

Would a sound limit keep mod cars away from divisional or national events if there is a  sound limit?

If my region uses NASCAR speedway sites or Airport sites shouldn't we as members have a choice on sound limits. 

Sound limits have a place.  No arguments about that.  Just were do you draw the limit? Should the Solo standard not meet or beat the San Diego limit?

Orthonormal:  Is that car pictured loud?  I have not heard it since the change but Yes it use to be.  Could the owner done something different?  Sure,  but it also  illustrates how hard it is to quite a full tilt rotary. 

marka:

Howdy,

Jim G:

Bad example.  San Diego has one of the most restrictive sound limits in the nation.  Many mod cars drivers don't go to San Diego because of it.  A national standard would not be written to that level of restriction.

Really?

From the perspective of someone that doesn't have, need, or want a sound restriction now but who seems to be getting a sound restriction shoved down his throat anyway, exactly why should I believe that someone won't decide to impose the San Diego restriction on me as well?

My proposed limit is 150db at 150'.  Its easy to say and remember, and its a limit I can 100% endorse for all national events.

Mark

You would also be def  after hearing that even from that distance. I really don't think that you have a good idea what 95@100 is.

Howdy,

CHRISFP78:

marka:

My proposed limit is 150db at 150'.  Its easy to say and remember, and its a limit I can 100% endorse for all national events.

Mark

You would also be def  after hearing that even from that distance. I really don't think that you have a good idea what 95@100 is.

My limit is based on years of research as to acceptable levels of sound at autox events.  I'm confident that my level will be acceptable to anyone, particularly those opposed to sound limits.

Plus, its really easy to remember.  "150 at 150" is cool!

And, most importantly, it will help me keep our autox sites just as well as any other limit that's been proposed.

Mark

Jim G:

marka:

Your safety argument above is similar to the one that banned smoking in grid but didn't ban the flammables... I.e. its a completely rationalization.

Our region doesn't need the increased cost or increased hassle in putting on events, and we're far from the only region that doesn't have sound issues.  If and when we do, we can address them then using the procedure outlined in the rulebook.  Until then, leave us the h*ll alone.

Increased cost?    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667

Fifty bucks.  Talk about rationalization.

You forgot the $20 for a tri-pod. "Oh, heavens! Better shut down the program... we just can't scrape up that kind of coin!" Give me a freakin' break. I don't go for the 'if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it mentality.' Just because Jonny hasn't impaled himself while constantly running with scissors, doesn't mean we shouldn't tell him to stop. Eventually, he's gonna find out it's a bad thing to do, just like ignoring sound. I fully agree a pro-active attitude on sound issues is best and now's the time to think about it..

Howdy,

atcovan:

Give me a freakin' break. I don't go for the 'if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it mentality.' Just because Jonny hasn't impaled himself while constantly running with scissors, doesn't mean we shouldn't tell him to stop. Eventually, he's gonna find out it's a bad thing to do, just like ignoring sound. I fully agree a pro-active attitude on sound issues is best and now's the time to think about it..

I bet we've had more vehicle rollovers than we've lost sites due to sound issues.

Why are those dangerous racing tires still allowed to be run?  We should get pro-active here, and ban them!  If we save just one life, it'll be worth it.

But, I'm more than happy if you guys want to think about it.  Think about it all you want.  But keep actual rules out of the book please.

Mark

marka:

My proposed limit is 150db at 150'.  Its easy to say and remember, and its a limit I can 100% endorse for all national events.

Mark

It's nice to seen someone who appreciates what a db means. 150db is approximately what the space shuttle at 10' is at launch.

Military jet aircraft take-off from aircraft carrier with afterburner at 50 ft . . . 130 dB

Howdy,

Also, in response to various "FM cars are irritating" comments... I find FSP cars to be _way_ more irritating than FM cars.  They're all slow crap econoboxes that I think suck.

I say we ban them.

Mark

marka:

Howdy,

Also, in response to various "FM cars are irritating" comments... I find FSP cars to be _way_ more irritating than FM cars.  They're all slow crap econoboxes that I think suck.

I say we ban them.

Mark

 I wonder if some people think you are more irritating than FSP cars? 

Howdy,

StrokerAce:

 I wonder if some people think you are more irritating than FSP cars? 

Oh, lots of people, I'm sure.

Hell, I often agree with them!

:-)

(But that doesn't make a national sound limit any more appealing)

Mark

Howdy,

StrokerAce:

It's nice to seen someone who appreciates what a db means. 150db is approximately what the space shuttle at 10' is at launch.

Military jet aircraft take-off from aircraft carrier with afterburner at 50 ft . . . 130 dB

Right.  If NASA wants to run the Space Shuttle (in CP, of course), I don't want some bogus rule disallowing it.

Mark

Howdy,

And, being serious for a moment (hard to do, but I'll try.. :-)

I'm 100% in agreement with having sound limits and following them for any site where such limits are needed.

I just don't believe we need a national rule forcing sound limits on sites where they _aren't_ needed.

Mark

Howdy,

Also, I have way more points than most anyone else I see in this thread (on this page, at least).

So clearly SCCAForums agrees with me too.

In fact, I'm surprised they allow you to post such insane ideas.

:-)

Mark

(those are a$$hole points, aren't they?  C'mon, you can tell me, I can take it...)

Generally, I think Mark is just being very passionate about his argument here, and he DOES have a good one.   We in Chicago run at a drag strip....even the FM's are only mildly annoying here.   But I think Mark touched on, but missed the big picture with that shot of the Rotary EM car....

We currently have no sound limit nationally, yet now there is discussion of putting one on us, and for many of us, for no apparent reason.   Yup, it will be a cost to some competitors (myself included as I think the Spyder is a tad loud), and how much of a cost will be decided on what the "acceptable" level of noise is.   Will it be as much as San Diego???  WHO KNOWS?!?!  Yes, that is an EXTREME example, but certainly, the possibility cannot be discarded by saying "That is a bad example because they are HIGHLY restrictive".  What is highly?   What isn't?   It is a slippery path to go down when you start arbitrarily regulating sound levels "just because it may become an issue".  I see nothing wrong with national giving leadership on "using sound limits at sensitive sites" and giving guidance as to what would be a good limit.   But to say "everyone needs to run this sound level"  is just doing it because they can...

 Personally, I see a greater issue of SAFETY with SPEEDS on courses these days.   Why aren't they pursuing that?
 

marka:

Howdy,

atcovan:

Give me a freakin' break. I don't go for the 'if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it mentality.' Just because Jonny hasn't impaled himself while constantly running with scissors, doesn't mean we shouldn't tell him to stop. Eventually, he's gonna find out it's a bad thing to do, just like ignoring sound. I fully agree a pro-active attitude on sound issues is best and now's the time to think about it..

I bet we've had more vehicle rollovers than we've lost sites due to sound issues.

Why are those dangerous racing tires still allowed to be run?  We should get pro-active here, and ban them!  If we save just one life, it'll be worth it.

But, I'm more than happy if you guys want to think about it.  Think about it all you want.  But keep actual rules out of the book please.

Mark

You won't here a car role over from your porch on the hill during your Sunday breakfast and coffee.

marka:

Howdy,

Also, in response to various "FM cars are irritating" comments... I find FSP cars to be _way_ more irritating than FM cars.  They're all slow crap econoboxes that I think suck.

I say we ban them.

Mark

Again, selfish