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SpyderVenom:

Andy Hollis:

PS: To the comments of "leave xx class alone for awhile", I say this:  we can't control the level of new better cars from the manufacturers or our members' desires to own/race these, so things much continue to change to keep up.  Sure, vested interest must always be managed versus future value, but we cannot blindly just ignore new cars in the interests of status quo.  

Understood but my post was more directed at the calls for a new class between SS and AS where presumabily the top cars in AS would be religated to also ran status against some of the current also rans in SS. 

I think the tweener class could be done without touching AS.  There are at least a handful of desirable SS also-rans that could be pulled out for a new class.

Andy Hollis:

I didn't say it was a good idea.

I just said that's what I think will happen, since the C6 Z06 is already there.  I just don't think we have yet seen what the C6 can do when fully developed.  And once we do, if it is way faster (I could be wrong!), other moves will happen in an attempt to keep some of the diversity.

--Andy

Sounds like Ramey is getting ready to show is what the C6 Z06 can do. IMHO, the car will end up about where the C5 Z06 is, meaning very competitive right now, but not dominant. Some courses will be better for it, some worse. I see it and the Viper as almost identicle, except the Viper puts power down better. On a all first gear course like HPT, Ramey may do pretty well if he can manage the wheelspin with his considerable talent.

What is the official status of the new S/C Elise? I hear Braun is entered in one at a national event? That car would obsolete the old car pretty damn quick, and could easily dominate. 

Instead of Super Duper Stock how about Stock Catchall. If you can prove that it was imported to the US in numbers (say 100 per year) and you have a US Factory Service Manual, you can run it. No cars excluded except those that are classes in some other Stock class. This solves the new car dilemma. This solves the late release car dilemma. This solves the GT2, Viper, ZR1 dilemma.

Regards,

Alan 

mwood:

AS still can be won in a C4, but the other favorites (GXP, CS S2000) are $30k plus.

BSPC5:

What is the official status of the new S/C Elise? I hear Braun is entered in one at a national event? That car would obsolete the old car pretty damn quick, and could easily dominate. 

Well, I am no longer an official in that particular loop.  But I understand that people in power have noticed Matt's entry.

Unofficially, my personal opinion is that the existing SS classification does not include the "S" model.  In the past, significant engine changes have always been given consideration as a new model, especially when adding forced induction.  So, to me, the car is not yet classed.  But that's just me and what do I know?  When you get lotsa new folks on the SAC and SEB, almost anything can happen.

--Andy

BSPC5:

What is the official status of the new S/C Elise? I hear Braun is entered in one at a national event? That car would obsolete the old car pretty damn quick, and could easily dominate. 

We all know that the elise is slow. Maybe the S/C will help it keep up? It is just an elise trim level...
 

Here are the specs from the Lotus web site. http://www.lotuscars.com/elise_220.html  Looks like a regular production version of the car. Given the power, tires, etc. of other Super Stock cars, why shouldn't the Elise SC be allowed?

Dick (no way I can afford one)

Dick Rasmussen:

Here are the specs from the Lotus web site. http://www.lotuscars.com/elise_220.html  Looks like a regular production version of the car. Given the power, tires, etc. of other Super Stock cars, why shouldn't the Elise SC be allowed?

Because we're talking about a 20% increase in horsepower in a car that has already demonstrated that it can win the class.  And remember, this increase in horsepower is in a car that already weighs 1000lbs less than all the other class competitors.  Imagine allowing only Garfield to increase his shifter cart's hp 20% and then saying it's fair to the other competitors.  The NA Elise can, and has won SS at nationals as it sits now.  Just because it finished 2nd last year doesn't mean we should increase it's hp and make all the Z06s and NA Elises obsolete.  IMHO

And most of the new SS competitors I've seen locally have been driving NA Elises.  Why chase them away too?

TedDBere:

Dick Rasmussen:

Here are the specs from the Lotus web site. http://www.lotuscars.com/elise_220.html  Looks like a regular production version of the car. Given the power, tires, etc. of other Super Stock cars, why shouldn't the Elise SC be allowed?

Because we're talking about a 20% increase in horsepower in a car that has already demonstrated that it can win the class.  And remember, this increase in horsepower is in a car that already weighs 1000lbs less than all the other class competitors.  Imagine allowing only Garfield to increase his shifter cart's hp 20% and then saying it's fair to the other competitors.  The NA Elise can, and has won SS at nationals as it sits now.  Just because it finished 2nd last year doesn't mean we should increase it's hp and make all the Z06s and NA Elises obsolete.  IMHO

And don't forget that the NA Lotus that won did so against the GT3 (car and driver) that won last year.

Dave G.
 

Dick Rasmussen:

Here are the specs from the Lotus web site. http://www.lotuscars.com/elise_220.html 

Interesting how the sports pack gets you narrower rear wheels.

Are there any other readily available cars and option packages banned from SS these days?

Dick

Dick Rasmussen:

Are there any other readily available cars and option packages banned from SS these days?

Dick

Viper ACR

TedDBere:

Because we're talking about a 20% increase in horsepower in a car that has already demonstrated that it can win the class. 

That same statement could be said about the C6 Z06 vs the C5 Z06.  Certainly the latter has demonstrated it can win, and what's the C5->C6 horsepower increase again?  

--Andy

 "Sounds like Ramey is getting ready to show is what the C6 Z06 can do."  

Darn, Gary:  a) you're on to me!  and b) that's a huge compliment !  I appreciate it. 

I gave up the c5z or 3 reasons:  1, I felt I could whip my c5z in an either an elise or a GT3 depending on the course, every time.  2, I had no desire to drive an elise.  3, I could not afford a GT3 ( they dont have enough grunt for my hungry right foot either)

That and the fact that it rained on me at every single event in every single desert/arid autocross spot in the country for 9 months, until I sold vette to build an Ark.  It wasn't much fun without rains.

Now, I guess I have matured some.  I still want to win.  But I bought the c6z 'cause its cool and I guess I no longer care if it is the 'best' car for the class.  We'll see how long that lasts if I get plastered regularly.

Data point on the c6z:  I have already run the car once on the run flats on ashpalt in 40 degree weather.  It was dissappointing in 2nd gear but pretty darn live in first.  It put down power pretty well actually.   Still, I dont think the car handles quite as well as the c5z.  The exaggerated tire size stagger gives the car a steady state push when lugging around in 2nd, but is skittish on/off throttle torque management issue in first.  

Was it fast?  I dont know.   There was a national trophy caliber AS s2000 there on hoosiers (probably not new ones) and I was about even with him when running the course in second.  Running in first I picked up about 1.5 seconds in the funruns.   Luckily it goes about 64 in 1st gear, so some courses will never need 2nd.

So, we'll see what happens when I get tires and alignment, etc.  It wont be as easy to set up as the C5z; I never did anything but align that thing and put tires on it.   This time it will take some effort.

Ramey's opinion on classing:  I think the SPORTS CAR club of AMERICA should always have classes where AMERICA's only SPORTSCAR can compete every time. 

I never had so much fun in my life as when running in a field of 60 c5z's and hotshoe drivers!  Now THAT was sporting. 

The elise is just too different of a car to really put in the same class with vipers, corvettes, even porsches.  I am pretty certain that I would be fastest in SS in an elise on 8 or 9 courses out of 10. A forced induction elise fixes the car's worst handicap, so I am quite certain that allowing the car in SS will kill the class.  Matt will certainly demonstrate that if allowed to run.   Maybe I'll end up in ASP after all.  Oh, wait, the elise would be even more dangerous there!   Damn brits.  Didn't we win that war?

But with the Lotus we're talking about a substantial power increase in the same chassis.  Even more importantly, a supercharger should substantially flatten the torque curve, the Elise's biggest Achilles' heel. 

GM didn't put the LS7 in a C5 Z06, they put it in the C6.  The C6 is wider and has a longer wheelbase, both not good for Solo.  I'm hoping Ramey's appearance in the C6Z may finally settle the arguments about the C6Z's stock class capability.  I know national champs that have driven both versions of Z06, and some say the C6Z is better, while others say it is no faster for stock class Solo.

-Steve

edit: post was in reply to Hollis, but I got sniped by Ramey!

The only way to make a good comparison is to take gearing in to account.  Did the Elise gearing change for the s/c'ed version? 

As many of you surely know, Braun is a pretty fair skinned dude, also very sensitive to cold (this I know as I had roomed with him once when he drove my Vette, and he had to wake up in the middle of the night and turn the hotel A/C off.  No one touches the damn A/C in my room but me !  It felt like a freakin sauna.

So to solve everyone's main problem of the fastest Elise driver in an even faster S/C Elise......

1)  Have several SS competiors walk around in  Reynolds Wrap, or in other words and highly reflective suit, from head to toe.  Keep close to Braun and take turns and shifts, so that he is constantly being bombarded by reflected light.  This exposure to increased light will weaken him possibly to point of dizzyness.

2)  Now getting back to his cold sensitivity.  After several hours of his fellow SS competitors wearing the "foil" suit.  A second team of SS drivers will get into a "staged" water fight, and "accidently" get Braun with several cups of water every hour or so.

This combination will render Braun slighty incoherent  (kinda like after a few drinks at BD's).  He will do so poorly in the S/C Elise that no one else would dare bring one out.

Sincerely submitted to the membership,

David Lehman

Director Itchy Ball Institute

PS----next time you guys have a problem, please solve it on your own, as I am getting quite tired of figuring out everything for you.  Stop trying to prove that the sterotype of autocrossers as being stupid is true.

Windscreen:

But with the Lotus we're talking about a substantial power increase in the same chassis.  Even more importantly, a supercharger should substantially flatten the torque curve, the Elise's biggest Achilles' heel. 

GM didn't put the LS7 in a C5 Z06, they put it in the C6.  The C6 is wider and has a longer wheelbase, both not good for Solo.  I'm hoping Ramey's appearance in the C6Z may finally settle the arguments about the C6Z's stock class capability.  I know national champs that have driven both versions of Z06, and some say the C6Z is better, while others say it is no faster for stock class Solo.

-Steve

edit: post was in reply to Hollis, but I got sniped by Ramey!

Thanks for the better answer, Steve.  Ted's claim took none of that into consideration.  He just said essentially, more power = domination.  And there is a LOT more to classing than that.  But people always get fixated on it.

--Andy

PS: Get used to getting sniped by Ramey since you'll be in the same class, in the same half of the country.