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Anyone else have a problem with this....???

Don't get me wrong, I am all for kids karts running at events.   I have issues with them running a "PRO" solo, or at Nats, but that discussion is for another time.   My issue (which doesn't effect me btw) is that we are running 8 FJ karts at the Toledo Pro, and those karts are preventing others from getting into the event.   I'm sure there are people trying to get an second event in that can't now.....   I don't think FJ karts should count toward the event cap personally...especially when this happens. 

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Tracy Ramsey
Team Blenderblaster
2000 MR2 DP Spyder

Zauskycop:

Anyone else have a problem with this....???

Don't get me wrong, I am all for kids karts running at events.   I have issues with them running a "PRO" solo, or at Nats, but that discussion is for another time.   My issue (which doesn't effect me btw) is that we are running 8 FJ karts at the Toledo Pro, and those karts are preventing others from getting into the event.   I'm sure there are people trying to get an second event in that can't now.....   I don't think FJ karts should count toward the event cap personally...especially when this happens. 

 +1 They should not count against the cap thus preventing competitors from getting their second event.  This might be different if there were more events available to people to get 2 events.

 
Furthermore from a safety standpoint we need to follow the rules on this or rewrite them for Pro's:

2.2 P. At any Solo event where Formula Junior uses the same course
layout as all other classes:  For any heat in which FJ is in compe-
tition, NO car in the grid may be in motion when any FJ kart is
moving under its own power.  From the start of FJ competition,
when the first driver in the class leaves the grid for the start line,
until the last driver has returned his kart to the FJ grid, this rule
shall apply.

I was one of the Safety guys at AR Pro and the National event staff demanded that grid to ignore aspects of this to keep the event moving.  In the end we did this safely but the rule was not followed. 

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Tim R
#80 BS 2009 RX8

Can you set this thread up to vote? 

IMHO, I am against FJ Karts from running Pro's, Tour's, Nat's, and the Finale for the reasons listed and a few others.

Dave

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#76 STU Evo

Let the kids run in ProSolo.  It really doesn't take a lot of time for them to run in the ProSolo format where all of their runs for the session are back to back.  Just no 2 driver FJ's.

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Phil K.
2002 Camaro SS, #68 ESP

pknowles:

Let the kids run in ProSolo.  It really doesn't take a lot of time for them to run in the ProSolo format where all of their runs for the session are back to back.  Just no 2 driver FJ's.

 THIS discussion isn't as to whether or not they should run pro...put that in another thread.   What I really am angry about is 8 other cars can't run Toledo because their slots are being taken by FJ karts.   THAT, to me, is wrong...
 

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Tracy Ramsey
Team Blenderblaster
2000 MR2 DP Spyder

I agree.

If the FJ's don't count towards the event cap then everybody will be happy. kid's get to race and so do 8 lucky people on the waiting list.

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Alex Jones
2007 A-Street Prepared GXP
www.CrazyMonkeyRacing.com

Zauskycop:

pknowles:

Let the kids run in ProSolo.  It really doesn't take a lot of time for them to run in the ProSolo format where all of their runs for the session are back to back.  Just no 2 driver FJ's.

 THIS discussion isn't as to whether or not they should run pro...put that in another thread.   What I really am angry about is 8 other cars can't run Toledo because their slots are being taken by FJ karts.   THAT, to me, is wrong...
 

To me the discussion is the same because the shot clock is 20 seconds between competitors, cars or jr karts.  Actually I'm not sure if they use the shot clock for kids, but lets assume that they do.  You will always have the switch over time between when the kids stop running and the cars start running and that time should be roughly the same regardless of the number of jr karts.  I guess what I'm saying is as long as there is at least 1 jr cart, the impact on the event is roughly the same if you give the next spot to a car or a jr kart because the interval is the same.  So, jr carts should take a spot.  And this is coming from someone who doesn't have any kids and is not in the event yet, but wants to be.

 

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Phil K.
2002 Camaro SS, #68 ESP

The problem isn't the kids, it's the lack of ProSolos.  I'd say don't count them against the cap.  I really like seeing the kids run and get excited about autocrossing. 

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Why is a Formula Junior any less a "Pro" than any other paid entrant?  Plenty of these kids have 5yrs+ experience and 3yrs+ of Pro Solo experience.

2) Why, when the event didn't fill for three months, is anybody griping about the kids "taking" spots?

Brian
 

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**3Generacing**
Craig: STX MINI Cooper S
Jane: STU Evo
Brian: F125 2000 CTS/Honda
Lisa: F125 2002 CTS/Honda
Julian: CRG Cadet/KT100
Carson: Intrepid Cadet/KT100

Boy I got scared that I forgot to register for Toledo and was now not able too. Luckily I registered a while back :D

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I am Chris Hammond.
Going2Colorado.com

Garfield:

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Why is a Formula Junior any less a "Pro" than any other paid entrant?  Plenty of these kids have 5yrs+ experience and 3yrs+ of Pro Solo experience.

2) Why, when the event didn't fill for three months, is anybody griping about the kids "taking" spots?

Brian
 

Yes, this is what I thought of as well.  I'm not running Pro's, but I have to ask the question, where does this stop?  Do you then say HS is a pud class and should not be taking up spots next?  They're paid entrants.  First come, first serve.  That's the way all events are.

Dave G. 

P.S. I'm in no way stating the value of HS with this post.   

Just suppose for a minute, that the kids running Formula Jr. weren't really kids.  Maybe they were and are midgets from the planet Remulak V.  Sent here to take over our world, and subjugate it's citizens for their amusment.

If this was the case, and indeed it very well might be, then wouldn't your opinion of allowing Formula Jr., at Pros, be in need of a serious reevaluation.

 

 

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Trying to get faster

Zauskycop:

Anyone else have a problem with this....???

Don't get me wrong, I am all for kids karts running at events.   I have issues with them running a "PRO" solo, or at Nats, but that discussion is for another time.   My issue (which doesn't effect me btw) is that we are running 8 FJ karts at the Toledo Pro, and those karts are preventing others from getting into the event.   I'm sure there are people trying to get an second event in that can't now.....   I don't think FJ karts should count toward the event cap personally...especially when this happens. 

I was wondering when this would come up... 

It will happen again at the Finale, BTW.  Think about that one.

--Andy

 

That's an interesting thought.  So how many "one eventers" were allowed in since they've started that? 

One Eventers

2007: 14

2006: 10

Can't find '05 or '04 results, but seem to recall those years being the first years when the event wasn't filling...they were finding ways to fill it.  Only 225 competed in 2003. 

If they qualify and pay...they qualify and pay. 

Brian
 

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**3Generacing**
Craig: STX MINI Cooper S
Jane: STU Evo
Brian: F125 2000 CTS/Honda
Lisa: F125 2002 CTS/Honda
Julian: CRG Cadet/KT100
Carson: Intrepid Cadet/KT100

Garfield:

If they qualify and pay...they qualify and pay. 

Note that Jr Karts are only required to run a single Pro as a qualifier for the Finale.  Not sure why.  Which means some of them could displace double-event regular class entrants, should the Finale sell out.  And all of them will displace any single-event regular class competitors for the Finale.  Could be interesting.

Read about it here.

--Andy

 

talon95:

Garfield:

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Why is a Formula Junior any less a "Pro" than any other paid entrant?  Plenty of these kids have 5yrs+ experience and 3yrs+ of Pro Solo experience.

2) Why, when the event didn't fill for three months, is anybody griping about the kids "taking" spots?

Brian
 

Yes, this is what I thought of as well.  I'm not running Pro's, but I have to ask the question, where does this stop?  Do you then say HS is a pud class and should not be taking up spots next?  They're paid entrants.  First come, first serve.  That's the way all events are.

Dave G. 

P.S. I'm in no way stating the value of HS with this post.   

 

The reason i think the Jr Karts should not take a spot on the cap is because they cannot qualify for any of the challange rounds or contingency (i'm assuming thats right).

I also think that the kids have every right to race too. i wish i was able to do that when i was younger

 

p.s. Dave brings up a good point about HS being a "Pud" class..[Ducks!]

jk :) it takes a lot of skill to drive a slow car fast.

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Alex Jones
2007 A-Street Prepared GXP
www.CrazyMonkeyRacing.com

this just in, Toledo Pro entry cap raised by 5 entrants... to 230.

 

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Carrie
'89 STS2 CRX Si (Thanks Ian!)
'88 STS2 CRX Si (it's heeeeee---eeere!)
'93 ES MR2 in L1 on occaision (Thanks Jerry!)

I'm not really concerned about the FJ at the finale... we have a lot of time throughout the weekend where they can run.... I would be a little concerned though if we shut people out of a *chance* to be in the contingency hunt, for FJ entries.

 

In other words, We don't really care if FJ is there... we only care about the impact to other entries of people trying to get in.

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Rick Cone
Atlanta Region Director

STS2 #98
1991 Mazda Miata - Aqua

So if kids didn't count against the cap, can I register my son now for Toledo even though we're already at 200 (or more)?  Or do we need a separate FJr cap?  

 

Larry

FJ thing is getting out of control.  When the started, it was regional and for fun.  Not to run @ Nationals.  Then came the FJ1, 2, 3, and 4.  Then running at Nationals, and now..... Pro's, including the Finale and apparently with only one event to qualify to boot.

 I understand that parents like their kids to run, but enough is enough and that's what local events are for.

I'm sure it's not at all lost on anyone that sometimes Pro's take all-day to run.....  We don't need to lose even 10 more minutes waiting for karts to run (and mark my words, it'll be more than that).  And from a worker standpoint it's not fair for them to stand out there, the kids can't work the course and pay their dues so to speak. 

 Everything stops for the kid's karts, as much that goes on @ Nationals and @ Pro's that shouldn't be happening.  Sure, it will please some people, but will piss off a whole lot more, myself included. 

 Why are kids entitled to this?   

 

 

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Sam Strano
Strano Performance Parts
814-849-3450