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Looking at the specs for the new STi a couple things struck me:

1) the price! $35k??? so 305hp subaru vs. 300hp BMW.... same price.

2) the weight! It actually weighs as much as a BMW, and I'm sure doesn't have the balance of a BMW 

3) the design looks very much like a cross between the E46 (headlights) and 135 (taillights) and a Mazdaspeed Protege.

 
For autocross purposes, it still has AWD, an extra half inch of wheel, better diffs, and probably better springs, but I'll be surprised if it compares well in the marketplace.
 

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DS #313 | the rolling couch of doom | La-Z-Boy Racing

1. Yeah, kind of surprising.  Considering all the technology in the Suburu, AWD, diffs, etc., I would expect the BMW to be cheaper

2. See above but change cheaper to lighter.

3. I like it. 

Not staying in DS?

we,ve got to stop meeting like this ......other MAC members will talkl

eh, the BMW's are aimed at the luxury market, if Subaru wants to charge BMW prices they should start taking some cues from Lexus...

No idea about DS, I can't imagine why they would do that, but I'm guessing it all depends on the 135's spring rates and camber...
 

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DS #313 | the rolling couch of doom | La-Z-Boy Racing

Will these both fall in the A-Stock class?

cmamich:

Will these both fall in the A-Stock class?

Should be.

Figure the STi will probably be a good car, especially at Pros. 

The BMW will be a bigtime also-ran, given that it's a heavy, one-wheel drive car with no camber. 

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John Vitamvas
stranoparts.com / TeamWTF.org '04 Z06

The BMW will be a bigtime also-ran, given that it's a heavy, one-wheel drive car with no camber.  

 Wow... sounds like my Cobalt, except for the "Bigtime also ran" part...

Interested to see what AS looks like this year with those 2 in there.

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Brian Huber
06 Cobalt SS-SC (retired to DD Duty )
02 Z06 ( Whole new ball o' wax )
#??SS

aansorge:

1. Yeah, kind of surprising.  Considering all the technology in the Suburu, AWD, diffs, etc., I would expect the BMW to be cheaper

2. See above but change cheaper to lighter.

3. I like it. 

Not staying in DS?

 

So the BMW does not have a lot of technology in it? hrmm... 

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00' 328Ci
01' Tahoe LT
98' Camaro Z28 - dead
95' 325is - STX 182

Sure, the BMW has loads of technology.

Problem is that very little of it goes into making the car faster.

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John Vitamvas
stranoparts.com / TeamWTF.org '04 Z06

No LSD in the BMW.....it controls traction in the back with the brakes.  This sounds like a show stopper in stock class.

prostcj:

No LSD in the BMW.....it controls traction in the back with the brakes.  This sounds like a show stopper in stock class.

I agree -- I think the car would be cannon fodder in A Stock.  Problem is, its huge power would create big course dependencies in B Stock; I think it might be too fast for F Stock, and it would probably kill D Stock.  Tough car to class -- I'd probably put it in F Stock, especially since the similarly powerful Shelby raised the bar there last year.

PedalFaster:

prostcj:

No LSD in the BMW.....it controls traction in the back with the brakes.  This sounds like a show stopper in stock class.

I agree -- I think the car would be cannon fodder in A Stock.  Problem is, its huge power would create big course dependencies in B Stock; I think it might be too fast for F Stock, and it would probably kill D Stock.  Tough car to class -- I'd probably put it in F Stock, especially since the similarly powerful Shelby raised the bar there last year.

I tend to think F Stock is the place it belongs as well.  It'll be buried in A Stock.

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John Vitamvas
stranoparts.com / TeamWTF.org '04 Z06

prostcj:

No LSD in the BMW.....it controls traction in the back with the brakes.  This sounds like a show stopper in stock class.

If it controls wheelspin by applying only the brake on the tire that is spinning, and provided the software is appropriately programmed, I honestly don't think the lack of a conventional LSD is a deal breaker. I don't know all the details on this brake assisted "LSD", but if implemented correctly it could be better then any of the conventional LSD's. On the other hand, if it is implemented poorly and/or gets disabled when you turn off the TC, then yeah, deal breaker.

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Nate Whipple
NER
188/88 DSP ITR

solo-x:

If it controls wheelspin by applying only the brake on the tire that is spinning, and provided the software is appropriately programmed, I honestly don't think the lack of a conventional LSD is a deal breaker.

The 3-Series' "virtual LSD" is ineffective -- why do you think the 1-Series' will be any different? 

After my adventure with the 330i ('05 with ZHP), a slip DOES make difference. Without a slip the car is an also ran, with it, and it is a contender. Ask the guys in the Integras.

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Matt Murray

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today.

The difference between theory and application I guess. Seems to me it shouldn't be too hard to program the virtual LSD to work better then even a s00per p1mp 2-way clutch type. Finally, an LSD option that could bias 100% of the torque to one axle that isn't axle speed differential dependant. Of course, the engineers have to have Solo performance in mind when they program the LSD to allow that 10-12% slip and apply brake to ONLY the wheel that is spinning.

Now, just because this technology on the 3-series is crummy for solo doesn't automatically mean the next iteration in the 1-series will be equally as crummy. Certainly doesn't bode well though.

Matt, drop me an email and explain what happened with the 330 and it's psuedo lsd. Just curious how it drove compared to one with a conventional LSD.

Nate - doesn't get to play with the fancy new electronic gizmo's

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Nate Whipple
NER
188/88 DSP ITR

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Jason Isley
2005-2006-2007-2008 B Stock National Champion

With 9" wide wheels, fat RE01R's, a good LSD and all the other STU allowances the 135 could be a contender.  Without them DS is where I think it should be. 

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BS RX8

cmamich:

Will these both fall in the A-Stock class?

I doubt the 135 will go to AS.  Until we actually get our hands on one, BS, DS and I suppose FS are all possibilities.

With 9" wide wheels, fat RE01R's, a good LSD and all the other STU allowances the 135 could be a contender.

Are twin turbo's allowed in STU? 

Jeff 

cashmo:

Are twin turbo's allowed in STU? 

Jeff 

No. 

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2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee