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rbnorton:

 

> 135 Weight 3373

 

How the eff did they manage to make this car so heavy?  Did they reinforce the frame with recycled Chinese lead toys? 

More stringent safety rules are leading to heavier cars. An example is the roll over protection structure that is mandated, which is causing all sorts of grief for rescue personnel that can't cut A pillars with the Jaws Of Life !!!!

"How low on gas can you run a 330 without starvation problems under sustained g-loads?"

at least 1/2 tank.....

between 1/2 and 3/4 if there are any long, faster right handers 

Yep, the required fuel level to avoid starvation depends on the course.  

 I've always been fine with a half a tank.
 

When I first ran the 330i I tried running at minimal fuel levels. I was trying to mimic the 318i. I know I ran it very low without starvation. The weight at HPT was with a full tank. I was trying to keep as much weight over the rear wheels in an attempt to keep the back end down. The focus on the car ended up being trying to get the rear wheels to stick in corners, slaloms, etc. Once I hit HPT, it was apparent as to how different the surface was there and what an advantage a limited slip played at that site. That's why the 135/128 will not be successful there.

 Matt Arnold's Three Series did well at Forbes. But Forbes ain't HPT.

murph1379:

ok, new thread, more 135i-centric

Things we know so far:

- SEB put it in DS, though they can still move it under the "12-month rule"

- Steve & Chris tested it with 245F/275R A6, otherwise stock, and it sucked monkey balls.

- there have been rumors that the SEB wants to make DS faster, presumably to separate it better from GS

Please post here if you have any new info to share about the 135i, or arguments to be made about its' appropriateness for DS.
 

So they were able to fit 245/275 on a 135i stock? Did they need spacers? Do you know exactly what size hoosier they ran?

My brother is looking to do this.

With the DS PAX being the lowest in the "2nd" tier of Stock cars (DS, ES, FS, GS) and the STS, STS2, STX. Adding some more life to the class can't be a bad idea. The new Shelby and the Cooper S have raised FS & GS PAX more than any other stock class percentage wise. If a car comes in and makes the class faster then I don't see it as a bad thing ;-)

That doesn't mean the DS cars are any slower, but watching them it's obviously a lot of work since a ITR needs some rowing thru the gears to do well. 

Just because a car has power, doesn't mean it will do well. Tires, weight and suspension setup have a lot to do with it. This stat says a LOT!

ITR lbs/mm tire width 11.1 (driven axle)

135 lbs/mm tire width 12.27 (driven axle)

It's going to take someone a while to make the 135 a class killer since it has less tire and no LSD compared to the ITR which seems to be the class leader. I don't think it's a BS car and I don't think the Shelby is either, everyone wants to take the "best car" and throw it up into BS to kill the car.

Either way the TT, SRT-4, Mazdaspeed, ITR, R32, WRX & Crossfire are all right in this range with the 135.

If the 135 is comparable in lap time to a E36 M3 after a year, bump it up to run against them in BS, otherwise it's a BMW it's going to get a good classing because they sponsor SCCA so we have to live with that. I honestly think the Cooper S turbo should be a DS car it seems to fit well into the class.

 Bret

SStrokerAce:

Just because a car has power, doesn't mean it will do well. Tires, weight and suspension setup have a lot to do with it. This stat says a LOT!

ITR lbs/mm tire width 11.1 (driven axle)

135 lbs/mm tire width 12.27 (driven axle)

But clearly that's not everything, both power:weight and driveline config help overcome available grip limitations, as the 330, TT, and R32 have proven. If the 135i ends up being essentially a 330 (proven competitive and potential winner) with 75 more hp & 85 more lb-ft, at least *I* think it'll be an overdog. The big question is how close in other ways is the 135i to the 330. We already know it's smaller dimensionally and can fit more tire. (sounds like 275 all around will work)
 

It's going to take someone a while to make the 135 a class killer since it has less tire and no LSD compared to the ITR which seems to be the class leader.

I disagree. I believe shocks and a front bar are already available for the car, as the road racing folks are pretty excited about it. It could be competitive in a couple weeks.

While important, LSD's on a road-race car are not as much of a deal-breaker as they are for solo cars. 

 We corner at very high G's, but in tighter radius corners, in lower gears with generally more available torque. 

01 FS Z28:

While important, LSD's on a road-race car are not as much of a deal-breaker as they are for solo cars. 

 We corner at very high G's, but in tighter radius corners, in lower gears with generally more available torque. 

Are you're saying the TC Kline DA shocks or the H&R bar (precisely the stuff I use on my 330) that are available now won't help the 135 for autocross?

I was just reading a review on 1addicts where a guy brought one out bone-stock on OEM runflats and took top-10 PAX locally. on street tires. no shocks, bar, exhaust, wheels, pads, or stickies. first time autocrossing it.

/wishes he had a spare $40k lying around

murph1379:

Are you're saying the TC Kline DA shocks or the H&R bar (precisely the stuff I use on my 330) that are available now won't help the 135 for autocross?

I was just reading a review on 1addicts where a guy brought one out bone-stock on OEM runflats and took top-10 PAX locally. on street tires. no shocks, bar, exhaust, wheels, pads, or stickies. first time autocrossing it.

A very, very good autocrosser, out here on the island of GUAM.  Just took top PAX time in a DS 135i.

 Bone stock-----Street tires !

Top Ten Pax---Guam event 5/18

1) Harry V. Gina

2) Jim Shorts

3) Phill McCrackin

4) I.P. Daily

5) Dee Scusting

6) Hugo First

7) Stu Pendis

8) Tom Morrow

9) Stevie Stain

10) David Lehman

murph1379:

01 FS Z28:

While important, LSD's on a road-race car are not as much of a deal-breaker as they are for solo cars. 

 We corner at very high G's, but in tighter radius corners, in lower gears with generally more available torque. 

Are you're saying the TC Kline DA shocks or the H&R bar (precisely the stuff I use on my 330) that are available now won't help the 135 for autocross?

I was just reading a review on 1addicts where a guy brought one out bone-stock on OEM runflats and took top-10 PAX locally. on street tires. no shocks, bar, exhaust, wheels, pads, or stickies. first time autocrossing it.

/wishes he had a spare $40k lying around

 Funny, I don't recall saying that.  I must be losing my memory at the ripe old age of 34..... 

 Certainly there will be tweaks that help, but take if from someone who's very familiar with 300 HP RWD cars, the lack of a differential is not good.  Hell, it's bad in a 330 that's pretty damned weak in comparison.  And fwiw, I found that the stiffest front bar was not helpful when I was playing with a 330ZHP. 

 As for the internet story of the PAXing top-10 man.  Ok..... but where?  A DC or SFR region event is a far cry from a 40 car middle of nowhere event.  Hell, I ran my brother-in-law's Mini Cooper S bone stock (right down to the Dunlop Run-flats) a few years back and paxed 11th in it.  Do I think I could win Nationals that way---hell no. 

01 FS Z28:

As for the internet story of the PAXing top-10 man.  Ok..... but where?  A DC or SFR region event is a far cry from a 40 car middle of nowhere event.  Hell, I ran my brother-in-law's Mini Cooper S bone stock (right down to the Dunlop Run-flats) a few years back and paxed 11th in it.  Do I think I could win Nationals that way---hell no. 

 Rio Grande Region

http://www.rgrscca.org/results.htm

http://www.rgrscca.org/results/FastPax0802.txt

http://www.rgrscca.org/results/FastPax0803.txt

http://www.rgrscca.org/results/FastPax0804.txt

http://www.rgrscca.org/results/FastPax0805.txt

Also here is the post on 1addicts with the original information. 

I didn't say it couldn't happen, but let's face it the region isn't huge...  Not to take anything away from anyone but I also noticed the car that paxed 11th was an AS car.  And was 3.019 seconds slower on raw time than the car paxed 2nd (also an AS car). 

 These results really have no bearing on how the car will do Nationally.  I'm sorry. 

David Lehman:

A very, very good autocrosser, out here on the island of GUAM.  Just took top PAX time in a DS 135i.

 Bone stock-----Street tires !

Top Ten Pax---Guam event 5/18

1) Harry V. Gina

2) Jim Shorts

3) Phill McCrackin

4) I.P. Daily

5) Dee Scusting

6) Hugo First

7) Stu Pendis

8) Tom Morrow

9) Stevie Stain

10) David Lehman

That's great!

01 FS Z28:

 Funny, I don't recall saying that.  I must be losing my memory at the ripe old age of 34.....

Well, you said that it'll take a while for someone to make it competitive. The only thing holding someone back from doing that should be the availability of shocks, (already available) bar, (already available) and exhaust. (already available) Wheels would be nice, but they're not critical.

Certainly there will be tweaks that help, but take if from someone who's very familiar with 300 HP RWD cars, the lack of a differential is not good.  Hell, it's bad in a 330 that's pretty damned weak in comparison.  And fwiw, I found that the stiffest front bar was not helpful when I was playing with a 330ZHP.

My point is that the weaknesses of the 135 are also weaknesses of the 330, which has proven to be a very capable autocrosser. Add 75 hp, 85 lb-ft, and more tire, and I doubt that the performance gets worse.  I guess we'll see...

As for the internet story of the PAXing top-10 man.  Ok..... but where?  A DC or SFR region event is a far cry from a 40 car middle of nowhere event.  Hell, I ran my brother-in-law's Mini Cooper S bone stock (right down to the Dunlop Run-flats) a few years back and paxed 11th in it.  Do I think I could win Nationals that way---hell no. 

And the capability of that car in stock form said something about its' capability in nationals trim, didn't it?

Certainly one top-10 PAX result in one region doesn't mean it's an overdog, just as the 88th place PAX result doesn't mean it's junk, but until a good driver preps it, this is what we have to work with. When the on-paper stats say it'll own, and the reviews are saying it does better than other macstrut BMWs, I'm inclined to think it'll do well.

Part of the intent of this thread is to keep an eye on this car, and to bench race a bit about how we think it'll do at the national level. I think it'll dominate.

Another part is for me to whine about how I can't afford it.

murph1379:

My point is that the weaknesses of the 135 are also weaknesses of the 330, which has proven to be a very capable autocrosser. Add 75 hp, 85 lb-ft, and more tire, and I doubt that the performance gets worse.  I guess we'll see...

The 135i has a better electronic diff that doesn't get turned off when you disable all the other nannies. So it doesn't really have the _same_ weakness, but the electronic diff could be something that needs to be adapted too. I'm thinking rear pad selection might be a critical part of the equation for this car... 

My point is that the weaknesses of the 135 are also weaknesses of the 330, which has proven to be a very capable autocrosser. Add 75 hp, 85 lb-ft, and more tire, and I doubt that the performance gets worse.  I guess we'll see...

The 135 also weighs more than a 330 ZHP and has narrower wheels.