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ok, new thread, more 135i-centric

Things we know so far:

- SEB put it in DS, though they can still move it under the "12-month rule"

- Steve & Chris tested it with 245F/275R A6, otherwise stock, and it sucked monkey balls.

- there have been rumors that the SEB wants to make DS faster, presumably to separate it better from GS

 
Please post here if you have any new info to share about the 135i, or arguments to be made about its' appropriateness for DS.
 

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DS #313 | the rolling couch of doom | La-Z-Boy Racing

I have some very good friends in DS, driving Type R's, and even given that fact, am all for blowing DS up and reconstituting the class to bring it into the 21st century...not only should the 135i be placed in the class, so should the Evo and STi

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.

I guess I don't see why you want to blow up a well-subscribed class that had 5 different cars in the trophies last year.

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DS #313 | the rolling couch of doom | La-Z-Boy Racing

a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse...

 

murph1379:

I guess I don't see why you want to blow up a well-subscribed class that had 5 different cars in the trophies last year.

It's an awd thing with Mike. Evo and STI in AS trim are decently competitive in the class and J. Roberts has proved this by finishing 4th in '06 and 6th in '07 iirc. Put those two cars in DS, and then we'll have a whole new set of issues...

As an FYI, here's the Edmunds full review of the 135i: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=125217

0-60mph in 5.0 seconds, 1/4 mile of 13.3 @ 104mph, 72.4mph run through the slalom, 0.89g on the skidpad (with skinny 215 front tires). Also, according to that Edmunds article, the car has a 52/48 percent weight balance.

 

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Chike Dellimore - Blue Ridge/Washington DC Regions
2006 Galaxy Gray 6MT Mazda RX-8 (B-stock)
Former 2006 Steel Gray 5spd WRX (D-stock)

"I have a lot to work on...crazy is still on the list."

murph1379:

I guess I don't see why you want to blow up a well-subscribed class that had 5 different cars in the trophies last year.

When was the last time the class was won by anything other than a Type R? How many stock Type R's are out there in used car land, currently and going forward? I just think there's more upside, long term, to finding a place for the currently most popular enthusiasts cars to play (competitively) in stock class than there is in continuing to play the "what might be able to knock off the Type R" game...

2 out of 3 top trophies, 5 out of top 10...Acura.

 

 

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.

murph1379:

I guess I don't see why you want to blow up a well-subscribed class that had 5 different cars in the trophies last year.

+1

being in DS and not owning a ITR, I gotta agree, why blow up a class that isnt grossly inbalanced.  DS has a "car of the class", but there are other cars that run against the ITR and can beat it without becomming the next car to have.

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Scott
07 Mazdaspeed 3

mwood:

murph1379:

I guess I don't see why you want to blow up a well-subscribed class that had 5 different cars in the trophies last year.

When was the last time the class was won by anything other than a Type R?

2005. BMW 330Ci. Like the 135i, it's sans LSD.

And the ITRs get scarcer every day, as more and more get stolen and stripped. Sad, but unfortunately very true, and the main reason I didn't jump to buy Stephen Turner's or Alan Pozner's.

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Karen Kraus
2005 SCCA SEDiv FS Champion
2007 SCCA DSL National Champion
2008 SCCA ProSolo L1 Champion

CamaroFS34:

mwood:

murph1379:

I guess I don't see why you want to blow up a well-subscribed class that had 5 different cars in the trophies last year.

When was the last time the class was won by anything other than a Type R?

2005. BMW 330Ci. Like the 135i, it's sans LSD.

And the ITRs get scarcer every day, as more and more get stolen and stripped. Sad, but unfortunately very true, and the main reason I didn't jump to buy Stephen Turner's or Alan Pozner's.

Last victory was at Forbes...concrete. I don't think we will see any "unlimited slip" cars getting it done at HPT...

I totally agree, the ITR is just getting rarer and rarer...but, will remain the car for DS, unless new cars are introduced.

 

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.

mwood:

Last victory was at Forbes...concrete. I don't think we will see any "unlimited slip" cars getting it done at HPT...

I totally agree, the ITR is just getting rarer and rarer...but, will remain the car for DS, unless a new Nats site is introduced.

 

Fixed that for you.

And if I was a betting man, I'd be giving good odds that it could happen sooner rather than later....

--Andy 

Let's look at some numbers

ITR 0-60 6.6

135 0-60 5.1

ITR lbs/hp 12.8

135 lbs/hp 11.2

ITR Weight 2500

135 Weight 3373

ITR Tire widths 225/205

135 Tire widths 245/275

ITR lbs/mm tire width 11.1 (driven axle)

135 lbs/mm tire width 12.27 (driven axle)

ITR LSD

135 no LSD (or worse Electronic LSD)

ITR FWD

135 RWD

HPT surface when dry is like driving in the rain at Forbes.

Given all those facts, I think the 135 will not dethrone the ITR at Nationals. But everywhere else it will crush the ITR.

Regards,

Alan

 

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Alan Pozner
Slow and proud

I am not sure if those owners who already have a 135 can chime in, but there was a post on www.1addicts.com where an owner weighed a sport package 135i and it was around 3200 iirc.  So that may make things a bit more interesting. 

Beans:

murph1379:

I guess I don't see why you want to blow up a well-subscribed class that had 5 different cars in the trophies last year.

+1

being in DS and not owning a ITR, I gotta agree, why blow up a class that isnt grossly inbalanced.  DS has a "car of the class", but there are other cars that run against the ITR and can beat it without becomming the next car to have.

+2

As another non-ITR DS competitor, I agree that there is NO GOOD REASON for the SEB to try to mix up the class.  You want to make DS faster than GS?  Move the Minis and SER back to DS for god's sake!  DS has had a great showing at nationals and at ProSolos, with a good mix of cars all being very competitive.  Why risk screwing up a class by putting a potential class killer in it?  Why not put the 135 in BS for a year and see how it does, then reassess?

yeah

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2008 BMW 135i

Buccaneer Region
DS #15

Cerebrum Digital

One more comment - it was mentioned that the Steve was not happy at all with the 135 at it's first event.  That reminds me of my first event with the SRT-4.  I hated it.  Finished 15th out of 16 at the first national tour with it.  Wanted to sell it as fast as I could.  I was just bitterly disappointed.  But I stuck with it, worked on it, learned how to drive it, and finished 3rd in the DS ProSolo championship and 5th at nationals with the car in it's first year.  All that, and I will never claim to be that good of a driver.  No one should make a judgement on a car's possible competitiveness based on one event in a car that's not fully prepared. 

Steve Baumbach

Steve B is the man! Put in in B-stock to see what happens for a year...besides I just put Koni D/A's on my 330 ZHP last weekend and would hate to see the car outclassed before I get to try them out!

George Thielen

www.forgeline.com

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www.mobileinspections.com

D stock is the right choice. It may have to be bumped to B stock, but that would make it an exceptional BMW on the numbers (just how soft will those springs really turn out to be). It seems far more likely that it will stay in D stock. All the classes get gradually faster. Today, I don't think you have many choices for a bar or struts or wheels, so a 330 ZHP (does it have a mandatory sun roof) should be safe for a while.

rallyfreak:

[

+2

As another non-ITR DS competitor, I agree that there is NO GOOD REASON for the SEB to try to mix up the class.  You want to make DS faster than GS?  Move the Minis and SER back to DS for god's sake!  DS has had a great showing at nationals and at ProSolos, with a good mix of cars all being very competitive.  Why risk screwing up a class by putting a potential class killer in it?  Why not put the 135 in BS for a year and see how it does, then reassess?

 +3

 

Yet another non-ITR DS competitor chiming in.  I am not a great driver either and the Crossfire has proven to be competitive in its first year of development.  We are now in the second year and I know my car has made huge strides since last year with a totally new setup and we are still testing to see if anything else can be done to be faster.  Why put a potential class killer into a class that is so diverse.  Now maybe this will all be a mute point and the 135 won't dominate DS but I have a feeling that on any surface that has really good grip it will destroy the class.  At HPT I feel the TT and the WRX are great choices and the Crossfire will be able to keep right up with the ITR as well.

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Keith
2008 Honda S2000

I also wanted to mention the TT. After test driving one I think it could probably beat the 330's. It's lighter and has higher spring rates. (at least according to the butt dyno) With equal HP to the 330, at least more torque than the Type-R, and AWD, I think it's a winner.

I think this was JT's year if he wasn't switching cars.
 

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DS #313 | the rolling couch of doom | La-Z-Boy Racing

murph1379:

- there have been rumors that the SEB wants to make DS faster, presumably to separate it better from GS

Well, this seems ridiculous. Why try to separate the classes? They are currently so close - why not simply merge them and reduce the number of classes or use that class elimination to open up a new class that better represents the selection of cars - like an SM street tire class for example.

I hope the 135 does well in DS (beacuse I think it is really cool), but I would not be in favor of putting it in there if it is believed that it will dominate. I thoroughly disagree with the idea of putting a car into a class knowing it will likely be dominant. It makes much more sense to be conservative so that all the work put into building cars is not wasted when a new car comes along. If it turns out to be classed too conservatively, then let it drop down a class next year. The ultimate goal of the SEB should be to reduce the variance in classes as much as possible. If they really are purposely trying to shift a class, they are putting a huge unnecessary error into the system. Rather than improve the system they will be further corrupting it at each poorly planned step along that path.

I hope all this talk of the SEB trying to push a class one way or the other is just incorrect speculation. Fit the current selection of cars into the best and tightest classes. I can't see any reason why a class needs to ever shift by way of new cars coming in to dominate - it would be a totally unscientific way to develop the classes. You must always work to reduce variance - not purposely create it for some end goal. If cars are simply getting faster, then make new classes when needed and merge old ones. (Like I am suggesting here - merge DS and GS, so a new one can be made.)

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Jason P.
Indy Region Moderator
SMS - M3 e46
(STU in 2009 - Thanks SEB! :) )