SCCAForums.com

After watching this weekends event, I think I would like to change out the Mugen airbox back to stock, and and race GS.  (Maybe May 4th???)

My next step will most likely be a more race oriented set of tires and stick with GS for a while.  After the driving school on Saturday, I certainly sped that process along!  I'm still grinning from all that excitement!  So is my car!

I'd really like the neg camber and rear sway bar, but that bumps me to a category that I can't have the race tires, STS, right?  (Next year!)

So for a newbie, which approach would you recommend?

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---Traci---
www.myspace.com/ga_electronchick

I personally agree that new drivers should start in a "stock" car if they are truly looking forward to not only improving their driving, but their ability of "tuning" a car.  You will learn what the camber does, what the swaybar does, and if you invest in some Koni's, what those do.   I drove a stock Spyder for 4 years before I took a jump into the deep end with my Prepared Spyder.   Alot of what I learned from driving a stock Spyder went into the initial development of the car, and what made the car so darn good right off the bat...

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Tracy Ramsey
Team Blenderblaster
2000 MR2 DP Spyder

I completely agree! If this is your first year, I would go as stock as you can. Because it'll make you that much better of a driver. Invest in the best set of tires allowed for stock class and get them.

 

After a year or more, then it will be time to hop into a class of your choice! 

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Jake Kaminskis
2002 Honda Civic Si STX
SCCA MKE Region

www.MidwestTuning.com
www.Datatoys.com

I'd recommend putting the stock air-box in and buying some 140 treadwear tires to run F (FWD street tire) with the GS index.  See what sizes you can get for your stock size rims in Falken Azenis RT615, Bridgestone RE-01R, Toyo R1R or Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1.

Jeff

Jeff how were those Falken's holding up for you? I know it's a whole different ball game than last years R Comps. I don't think your wife was happy with the lack of grip!

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Jake Kaminskis
2002 Honda Civic Si STX
SCCA MKE Region

www.MidwestTuning.com
www.Datatoys.com

First off, welcome to a great community.  

I will take a contrarian view and say that STS may be a good place for you.  First off, it prevents you from going to R-compounds, which will get expensive really quick.  With Jason and Craig around, you will also have a very good and consistent yardstick to measure your performance, and how much you improve from event to event.  Granted it may be discouraging at first to get blown into the weeds by them, but you will become a better driver as a result.  If you do go STS I would advise against throwing a whole bunch of parts at the car all at once.  Do one thing at a time and allow yourself a couple events to get used to the difference in feel and performance.

 
You also might want to see if you can talk to JP or Ryan, they ran a RSX-S in STX for the last couple of years.  Now they drive the purple 240 in SM.  Not sure if they read this group or not though.
 

Thanks for the info...so, for the contrarian, is the expense of the R-compound tires the cause for you to suggest STS?

I agree, make changes little by little, and other than going back to stock on my airbox, the next change I was considering was the tires, not full bore race tires, yet.  I am not ready yet for a dedicated set of tires...this is my daily driver.  (I am looking for another set of wheels for this application, though!)

 So for my first race, you are suggesting I leave the airbox in and go STS with my stock tires?  Obviously, this is by far the cheapest way to start!  Will I be that run off into the weeds in FWD GS running on my stock tires?

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---Traci---
www.myspace.com/ga_electronchick

Welcome to the board, and the region!!! 

I would follow Jeff's (cashmo) advice, take the airbox off and run in FWD.  If you can't afford the tires right away no problem, just run the ones you have on the car right now.  STS is fun, but you are going to have a better chance in FWD in my eyes.  Once you've run the car you have for a season (or more) you can make a more educated decision on what you want to do in the future.

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Jason Frank
Bridgestone / datatoys.com / Redshift Motorsports STS Civic Si

TeamUndercoatRacing.com

Jason and Jeff are both right on the mark.  I will tell you from experience that the RSX only gets less competitive the more you modify it.  (The only exception being that with an LSD it's a lot closer in STX than it ever will be in STS, but you're talking about several thousand dollars investment.)  I, too, would recommend starting in the FWD street tire class and taking out the airbox.

You don't even *need* to replace your current tires.  After you've done a few events on the stock Michelins, you may find that they're holding you back in some ways and want to switch to one of the upper-echelon street tires Jeff listed.

After you've been autocrossing for a while, it'll be a lot easier to tell if you want to further modify the RSX and have fun with it or if you want to move into a different car.  But, honestly, I wouldn't even worry about that for a while.  Just get out and enjoy the FWD class -- you'll always have a lot of competition around here to gauge yourself on, and it's cheap as it gets to run.

Electronchick:

Thanks for the info...so, for the contrarian, is the expense of the R-compound tires the cause for you to suggest STS?

I agree, make changes little by little, and other than going back to stock on my airbox, the next change I was considering was the tires, not full bore race tires, yet.  I am not ready yet for a dedicated set of tires...this is my daily driver.  (I am looking for another set of wheels for this application, though!)

 So for my first race, you are suggesting I leave the airbox in and go STS with my stock tires?  Obviously, this is by far the cheapest way to start!  Will I be that run off into the weeds in FWD GS running on my stock tires?

 

My reasons for suggesting STS are primarily the R-comp expense.  I also ran my first season in street tire and didn't like it very much.  I have had a lot more fun in the past couple seasons in STU. 

I would have modded my car even if I never got into autox.  The ST* classes are nice because they allowed me to tinker and improve my car without making it completely unstreetable or uncompetitive for the class. 

Either class you go with, you will have a lot of fun and learn a lot about your car and how to better control it.  If you do decide to go STS, I'd suggest checking out any RSX forums.  But be careful, there are plenty of idiots on the internet.  Your best bet may be to use the forums to find some well respected vendors or tuners that know what they are doing.  In the subie community we are blessed to have a number of well regarded resources to go to.

IlliniSTi - I can see where you are coming from with your suggestion.  It really is a double edged sword and it varies from person to person.  Some people want to go out and have fun in their car, other people want to go out and drive their car and they have this need to win!  Although, it would be very rare to see a noobie win a well subscribed class right away (most don't expect to win right away), but if you are getting blown out of the water it does damper your hopes, which probably pushes some people away. 

Then again, being able to modify their car and assuming it might get faster in STS might keep them around... like I said it's going to vary based on the person running.  If the original poster likes his airbox and chooses to stay in STS as is that is fine too, hes going to learn just as much about his car, it will just be harder to finish as well.
 

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Jason Frank
Bridgestone / datatoys.com / Redshift Motorsports STS Civic Si

TeamUndercoatRacing.com

Electronchick:

Thanks for the info...so, for the contrarian, is the expense of the R-compound tires the cause for you to suggest STS?

 

Not even taking the expense into account, I think that you'll learn more, more quickly on street tires.  R-Comps tend to mask mistakes, and street tires will usually amplify them (e.g. shreeching).  Even if cost was the same, I think that is reason enough to not go with R's.

 

As for the GS, STS argument...from a "Sunday-only" perspective, I think it will be more rewarding to run a stock index for now.  If you come into STS with only an intake--that puts you at a substaintial disadvantage in terms of level of preparation...and like Jason inferred might make for a disappointing start to your autocrossing career.  On the other hand, if you plan on doing dampers/springs/swaybars etc., not for racing, but for your own enjoyment--dont let that stand in your way.  Its fun to drive a modified car every day--so make the car the way you want to drive it Monday thru Saturday, and let the classing take care of itself for Sunday...

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Erik B.
Wisconsin Autocrossers, Inc
www.waiautox.org ___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___
2007 Mazda6
2000 "Fozda" ZX2 S/R--STS Anti-Civic

The Falken's held up fine although it wasn't 90 degrees out either.  We're slowly lowering the pressures to figure out what works best and I have a number of setup changes to try.  Approx half the cost of Hoosier A6's and should last twice as long. Plus the grin factor went up since we can swing the rear end around whenever we want.  We might try the Toyo R1R if/when it comes out in our size.  Denise wasn't exactly in mid-season form, was busy with Ryan's kart and helping a shorthanded T&S in the bus. 

Jeff "saving for retirement" Cashmore 

 

 

This will be my first full year of STS.

The only reason I'm in STS instead of stock is that my XA sits really high at stock height.

I'm driving against some cars that have a lot more preparation & a lot more power than mine.

I would have preferred to start in a stock car, with street tires, but I had to keep the lowering springs & they put me in STS.

In any case, I took Learning Curve & learned a lot.  I talk with a lot of experienced drivers & learn a lot.

Whatever you decide, make your first priority to have fun.

 

On the bright side, I was beat by an RSX last weekend...

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"Most amateur drivers go too fast in slow corners and too slow in fast
corners"
Emerson Fittipaldi

If you want to be competitive with your current setup, take out the airbox and run stock FWD. Then if you feel like stepping up with some springs/dampers/wheels/tires/etc.. Then bump up to STS! You'll have fun and learn a ton of info in either class.

 

But like the pros are telling you. R-Compounds will mask you mistakes and you won't even realize that it was a mistake. Street tires are the best to learn on, even worn out stock tires, because they won't mask your mistakes. If you make the mistake you'll know it! The more mistakes you make in the beginning the more you'll learn how to not make them, and that will make you a much better driver!  

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Jake Kaminskis
2002 Honda Civic Si STX
SCCA MKE Region

www.MidwestTuning.com
www.Datatoys.com

I like this answer...I think this is the approach I want to take...for no, I'm putting the stock airbox back in and racing her as she is in GS!

 

sorry-had to repost below, tried to delete

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---Traci---
www.myspace.com/ga_electronchick

ebnrt:

Electronchick:

Thanks for the info...so, for the contrarian, is the expense of the R-compound tires the cause for you to suggest STS?

 

Not even taking the expense into account, I think that you'll learn more, more quickly on street tires.  R-Comps tend to mask mistakes, and street tires will usually amplify them (e.g. shreeching).  Even if cost was the same, I think that is reason enough to not go with R's.

 

As for the GS, STS argument...from a "Sunday-only" perspective, I think it will be more rewarding to run a stock index for now.  If you come into STS with only an intake--that puts you at a substaintial disadvantage in terms of level of preparation...and like Jason inferred might make for a disappointing start to your autocrossing career.  On the other hand, if you plan on doing dampers/springs/swaybars etc., not for racing, but for your own enjoyment--dont let that stand in your way.  Its fun to drive a modified car every day--so make the car the way you want to drive it Monday thru Saturday, and let the classing take care of itself for Sunday...

I like this answer!  I think I'll put the stock airbox back in and drive the wheels off her in GS!

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---Traci---
www.myspace.com/ga_electronchick

Technically, F class with GS index.  But, good choice. 

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Jimmy

"Everyone ahead of me must be cheating, everyone behind me is a great driver."

08 National Champ or bust!

Sponsored by: whoever lets me drive their car when I show up. :)

by the way, there's a woman in an STS Civic Si that I raced against last weekend.  I think she's from Wi...

and I'm working on my better half (gently) to co-drive my car... (she'll also be in STS then)

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"Most amateur drivers go too fast in slow corners and too slow in fast
corners"
Emerson Fittipaldi