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CHRISFP78:

RX7 KLR:

CHRISFP78:

 

A little finance 101 for you. In ten years, things have to almost double to keep up with "real" inflation. If Kumho gave 200 in 98 it should be 400 in 08. The contingencies have gone down 50% in ten years. Hoosiers approach works better because you win a product that is on the free market value system. How much did gas cost in 98? How much did housing cost in 98? How much did you make in 98?

Chris 

How about reality 101 for you... We race around cones in a parking lot, if you want to make money racing you are in the wrong sport. If autox is to expensive for you maybe you should not have bought the GT3.

You totally missed my point. I was talking about it from a competition stand point. The money was more to do with the fact that there is a larger dilution of contingecy because there are more classes now. I was thinking about a way to make a win mean more. The Neon example should have explained my position.  The fact is that contingency has gone down 50% in the last 10 years.

FWIW I own the GT3 outright, the motorhome is paid for, never have a credit card balance, the house is almost paid for and I have a six digit checking account so the money is not primary to me. What should I spend my year end bonus on this year

jdchristianson:

Do people really autocross for contigencies?  If so they really don't understand economics very well.  I personally play the game for fun.

At a National Tour/Pro/Nationals, you can win some money.  If you win a Hoosier or two, that's $500 depending on the tire size.  It pays for your event.  I think a friend of mine walked away with a "paycheck" after winning his class and then the Challenge at a ProSolo.  So at the top levels people can suppliment thier racing. 

I used to in the miata.......5 or more people in the class = $500 to be won at a tour. With a co-driver to split fuel and room costs, I could at least break even in arkansas, and made out like a bandit for the houston tour. :)  I broke even for the 2006 season in the miata. :)  

Mini USA and kumho together pay about $800 for a tour win. And add in grassroots at nationals about $1900 I think. SO with a cooper you can make a profit :) 

jdchristianson:

Do people really autocross for contigencies?  If so they really don't understand economics very well.  I personally play the game for fun.  Its an adrenaline rush, and stress reliever on a Sunday afternoon.  I get to play with cars with friends, thats about all there is to it.  I don't think we have too many classes.

 Jeff Christianson

CHRISFP78:

You totally missed my point. I was talking about it from a competition stand point. The money was more to do with the fact that there is a larger dilution of contingecy because there are more classes now. I was thinking about a way to make a win mean more. The Neon example should have explained my position.  The fact is that contingency has gone down 50% in the last 10 years.

FWIW I own the GT3 outright, the motorhome is paid for, never have a credit card balance, the house is almost paid for and I have a six digit checking account so the money is not primary to me. What should I spend my year end bonus on this year

Look at the two biggest classes, SS and AS, no one in there is getting a dime of manufacturer money (aside from tires), and yet there is some of the best competition.

I've read tihis entire thread three times and I don't understand what the goal is. Is the goal to get rid of "undersubscribed" classes, so the avialable contingency money can be spread over fewer people? That would give the same people that are winning now more money. How does that help the SOLO program grow?

I run in an "Undersubscribed" Mod class. Compared to "popular" class participants I pay the same SCCA membership fee, the same entry fee, I buy tires, parts and fuel, I work the same worker assignment, and I my goal is to beat who ever shows up in my class. How does differ from the participant in any Stock, SP, SM, or ST class?

Del Long

D/E Mod

It's not a "goal" more of an observation. I think the number of classes had diluted the competition. A more focused contingency may help to make competition deeper in those classes. I"m not suggesting that we eliminate classed. More of a build it up and they will come approach.

Chris 

Stock, SP,P 

Mini money got cut in half this year

Davebs14:

I used to in the miata.......5 or more people in the class = $500 to be won at a tour. With a co-driver to split fuel and room costs, I could at least break even in arkansas, and made out like a bandit for the houston tour. :)  I broke even for the 2006 season in the miata. :)  

Mini USA and kumho together pay about $800 for a tour win. And add in grassroots at nationals about $1900 I think. SO with a cooper you can make a profit :) 

jdchristianson:

Do people really autocross for contigencies?  If so they really don't understand economics very well.  I personally play the game for fun.  Its an adrenaline rush, and stress reliever on a Sunday afternoon.  I get to play with cars with friends, thats about all there is to it.  I don't think we have too many classes.

 Jeff Christianson

CHRISFP78:

It's not a "goal" more of an observation. I think the number of classes had diluted the competition. A more focused contingency may help to make competition deeper in those classes. I"m not suggesting that we eliminate classed. More of a build it up and they will come approach.

 

Chris 

Stock, SP,P 

OK, after you get the contingency money more "focused" will the class winner get more money, or will more people get some money?

Is there any evidence showing/indicating/suggesting contingency money brings out  more people? Equally important, does or will more contingency money change who wins?

SWAG says if someone puts up a Million dollars for fist place in SS or XP or HS it'll draw some attention.

Del Long

dglong:

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Is there any evidence showing/indicating/suggesting contingency money brings out  more people? Equally important, does or will more contingency money change who wins?

SWAG says if someone puts up a $1000 dollars for first place in a Neon, it'll draw some attention.

Fixed that for you.  Welcome to 1995... 

--Andy

Mo money works better. Neon example proves it. Money equals buzz.

CHRISFP78:

Mo money works better. Neon example proves it. Money equals buzz.

 

If so, then why are more manufacturers putting up more money? 

Perhaps more classes means more places a manufacturers car can shine.  If my cars are all buried I would not put up anything.   

espl89:

But if you are a manufacturer and you are the only car in the class, what is there to brag about?? Who are going to put in your ads that you are better than???

Good point. 

It was a large part of what sent BFG packing, way back when.  They dinally destroyed Yoko and ended up with 100% marketshare in our space.  Then, they left.  Some of that obviously also had to do with BFG personnel shifts (Herb moving up and Dave retiring), but still.

That said, it does work for F1 and NASCAR, each of whom has tire exclusivity.  But they also have TV.  Our space works more on word-of-mouth peer referral ("these cars/tires kick ass").

It also worked for Subaru back when they gave money for "top Subaru" in class.  That got lots of folks out, even if they did not win.  It worked especially well given the free-SCCA-membership deal that new WRX owners were getting.

--Andy

JerryLamb:

CHRISFP78:

Mo money works better. Neon example proves it. Money equals buzz.

 

 

If so, then why are more manufacturers putting up more money? 

They aren't.

More manufacturers are putting up the same money.  It puts more manufacturers on an equal footing in rewarding their drivers.  But it does nothing to incentivize a driver to switch brands if they are already "pot committed".

--Andy 

Funny how that works...  My perception of what sent BFG packing is that the G-force R1 sucked big time on a lot of cars, and but for a few gifted folks who helped develop the tire, driving in the cars that those tires were developed on, the results were sorely lacking. 

BFG ran Yokohama out because they were faster, then BFG tanked and Kumho's became pretty much the top dog.  Then the A3S03 vs. Kumho was fairly close, but the nod usually went to Hoosier.  Then the V710 came out and they ruled until the A6's debuted.  Now Kumho is at work on another tire (so we hear), and that might change again.  The difference here is neither Hoosier nor Kumho has taken their ball and gone home like Yokohama did, followed by BFG in the 90's. 

01 FS Z28:

Funny how that works...  My perception of what sent BFG packing is that the G-force R1 sucked big time on a lot of cars, and but for a few gifted folks who helped develop the tire, driving in the cars that those tires were developed on, the results were sorely lacking. 

The G-Force was an afterthought.  They already gave up on Solo by then, and Herb and Dave had moved on.  The G-Force was a road race tire primarily and its application to Solo was a side effect.  I'm am amazed at how many contract drivers stuck with them through the "afterthought" period.

When BFG wanted to win at Solo, they did. 

--Andy

01 FS Z28:

Funny how that works...  My perception of what sent BFG packing is that the G-force R1 sucked big time on a lot of cars, and but for a few gifted folks who helped develop the tire, driving in the cars that those tires were developed on, the results were sorely lacking.  BFG ran Yokohama out because they were faster, then BFG tanked and Kumho's became pretty much the top dog.  Then the A3S03 vs. Kumho was fairly close, but the nod usually went to Hoosier.  Then the V710 came out and they ruled until the A6's debuted.  Now Kumho is at work on another tire (so we hear), and that might change again.  The difference here is neither Hoosier nor Kumho has taken their ball and gone home like Yokohama did, followed by BFG in the 90's. 

The Hoosier DOT Radials were intro'ed in 1996. I think BFG was still a player then. A few daring folks went with Hoosier. I cannot remember the year BFG left.