SCCAForums.com

Ill make this brief.  Went to my first event on the OEM runflats with my '06 Z51 vette.....yikes.  I think I am going to learn how to drive right first on non R comps, so A) it doesn't hide my mistake riddled driving and B) so I don't burn through a set of Hoosiers just LEARNING.  Which brings me to my quandary....

Michelin PS2's = $1426 / set

BFG G-Force KDW's = $948 / set

Kumho ECSTA SPT = $660 / set

Obviously none of them are run flats, but I can throw a can of fix-a-flat in the car and just drive these to the events....plus they could pull replacement duty once the runflats finally die.  So next season or the season after that when I am ready for some Hoosiers these can just be the daily driver tires --- if I don't destroy them in a season or two. 

The Hoosiers A6's heat cycled and all are only $1246, so I'm not buying the PS2's..... which only leaves two options.  I had good luck with BFG products in the past, but no experience with the Kumho's.  Anyone care to chime in?  At nearly a $300 savings, they really have my attention!  Kumho's any good?  Anyone with specific experience in the ECSTA SPT? 

 

Thanks!

cmamich:

Ill make this brief.  Went to my first event on the OEM runflats with my '06 Z51 vette.....yikes.  I think I am going to learn how to drive right first on non R comps, so A) it doesn't hide my mistake riddled driving and B) so I don't burn through a set of Hoosiers just LEARNING.  Which brings me to my quandary....

Michelin PS2's = $1426 / set

BFG G-Force KDW's = $948 / set

Kumho ECSTA SPT = $660 / set

Obviously none of them are run flats, but I can throw a can of fix-a-flat in the car and just drive these to the events....plus they could pull replacement duty once the runflats finally die.  So next season or the season after that when I am ready for some Hoosiers these can just be the daily driver tires --- if I don't destroy them in a season or two. 

The Hoosiers A6's heat cycled and all are only $1246, so I'm not buying the PS2's..... which only leaves two options.  I had good luck with BFG products in the past, but no experience with the Kumho's.  Anyone care to chime in?  At nearly a $300 savings, they really have my attention!  Kumho's any good?  Anyone with specific experience in the ECSTA SPT? 

 

Thanks!

First, I'd say that if you want to eventually be fast on R-comps, buy R-comps (assuming you can afford them).  They don't hide mistakes as long as you have quality competition around (the clock will make it very clear whether you're making mistakes or not).

 I've had 3 sets of SPT's as street tires (and rain autox tires).  They aren't the *best* street tire around, but they're pretty solid and it's awfully hard to beat the bang/buck.

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Bryan
2006 Chrysler Crossfire
DS #187
Yeah, seriously...A Chrysler
2008 C6 Z51 waiting in the wings...

I think you are on the right track. Real street tires will be a learning aid. a real summer tire that's a non-run-flat will provide good grip and feel. I'd go with the Kumhos - cheaper is better IMHO. However, once I had them on the car, I'd just leave them.

With modern tires how many flats do you get? I have not had a flat in 36 years of driving so who needs a spare? I've had 1 slow leaker but was able to drive on it several miles to repair. Seriously though, why not get a little rechargeable or cig. lighter compressor and fix-a-flat?

regards,

Alan 

 

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Alan Pozner
Slow and proud

How do R-compound tires hide mistakes?

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--Jason Rhoades

Well good question, perhaps they don't.  I remember reading a post a while back where several veterans insisted that learning to drive well on street tires first is a better approach instead of jumping directly into R comps.  I guess it makes a bit of sense to me as street tires' lack of grip would be less forgiving in less than ideal throttle/brake application, poor line, etc etc. 

They dont.  They just elevate the threshold of detection so high, that some newer drivers can't see it.  I'm in the "start out on crappy street tires" camp myself.  Learn to be smooth and not exceed the limits of those, and you can translate that into higher performance levels later.

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Patrick Washburn
STU Evo
www.winghats.com

00R101:

With modern tires how many flats do you get? I have not had a flat in 36 years of driving so who needs a spare? I've had 1 slow leaker but was able to drive on it several miles to repair. Seriously though, why not get a little rechargeable or cig. lighter compressor and fix-a-flat?

regards,

Alan 

You're on the extremely lucky end of the spectrum and I'm on the very unlikely side I guess.

I average a flat every couple years  - a true flat, no blowouts, but 30 seconds of highway driving on a tire that just picked up a big nail or screw and the sidewalls are toast.  I've had at least that many patch/plugs as well. (bolts, screws, nails, piece of screwdriver, cracked valvestem, metal chunks, industrial staples, and mesquite thorns will go right through the sidewall ....... you name it, it's been in my tires).
 

Maybe we've got more loose screws down in Texas.  ;)

 

 
 

Patrick Washburn:

They dont.  They just elevate the threshold of detection so high, that some newer drivers can't see it.  I'm in the "start out on crappy street tires" camp myself.  Learn to be smooth and not exceed the limits of those, and you can translate that into higher performance levels later.

 I was in that camp until I started using rcomps.  They're so different that I don't think it matters since it's a completely different ballgame.  If you learn to drive the car on street tires, you just have to relearn it on rcomps when you get them.  This is especially true in my current car, a FWD, since with the rcomps it peglegs so bad that I get rotation because I've only got one rear tire on the ground.

I do think you should at least have an idea of what's going on though ....... a few autox's should take care of that and give you a good chance of not flatspotting or cording just because you made a course read error.
 

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wheelspecs.com

Get an extra set of wheels and some Hoosiers.   If you do need some new street tires, I just put some KDW2s on my 05 Z51 and would recommend those as you can get the correct sizes.   They are a good upgrade from the 2.5 yr old run flats that are on there.   Autocrossing the Vette on R Comps would be a lot more fun than street tires.

     Indeed, I am picking up the extra set of rims in a couple of days. 

On the Hoosiers, there is a reduction in diameter by 3% from the stock size to the nearest Hoosier and likewise a 1.6% reduction up front.  These seems fairly small, I would guess this won't confuse the traction control system too much even though I think I am going to run with it off. 

Here is an old thread related to the topic: http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/226037/ShowThread.aspx

I didn't realize how few options there were in the 19 inch size. 

cmamich:

Ill make this brief.  Went to my first event on the OEM runflats with my '06 Z51 vette.....yikes.  I think I am going to learn how to drive right first on non R comps, so A) it doesn't hide my mistake riddled driving and B) so I don't burn through a set of Hoosiers just LEARNING.  Which brings me to my quandary....

Michelin PS2's = $1426 / set

BFG G-Force KDW's = $948 / set

Kumho ECSTA SPT = $660 / set

Obviously none of them are run flats, but I can throw a can of fix-a-flat in the car and just drive these to the events....plus they could pull replacement duty once the runflats finally die.  So next season or the season after that when I am ready for some Hoosiers these can just be the daily driver tires --- if I don't destroy them in a season or two. 

The Hoosiers A6's heat cycled and all are only $1246, so I'm not buying the PS2's..... which only leaves two options.  I had good luck with BFG products in the past, but no experience with the Kumho's.  Anyone care to chime in?  At nearly a $300 savings, they really have my attention!  Kumho's any good?  Anyone with specific experience in the ECSTA SPT? 

 

Thanks!

 

If you have a method of transportation for r-comps to and from events, or you live a few blocks from the sites, go with the r-comps.  I am personally confused about all the stuff regarding learning on street tires vs r-comps because you will have people tell you to learn on street tires and in the same breath turn around and tell you all about the 'right' setup for everything else.  Makes no sense to me at all.  Either the car is going to stick or it isnt.  Driving the correct line is probably going to be your biggest challenge and the line could care less about what tires you have since really speed is almost secondary.  And unless the A6's come already heat cycled which I see is the case on some sizes right now, just get them, mount them and drive around the neighborhood for a bit following the Hoosier recommendations for break in. 

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Rob S.
116 FS 2008 Ford Mustang Bullitt

South Carolina Region

from my own experience regarding street versus R, here's two bits

1. i ran hoosiers in '05, my 2nd year with the car, and also my 2nd full season (no choice really, i was in asp with a JCW Cooper!)

2. my driving wasn't ready, because of 3.

3. the hoosiers stuck like hell and bejeezus IF i was tidy and ran lower slip angles (i wasn't) and the tires were at the right temp range (often they weren't)

4. the last two years i've run ST, and although I miss the R compound crack pipe a little, i'm getting needed driving practice with tires that HOWL when i'm being an idiot rather than silently letting go...

but that's just me

 

ps: max lateral g in '05 was 1.21, and last year was 1.09

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Charlie Thompson
'04 JCW Cooper [STX]
NER Cannon Fodder