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So I'm trying to get back in the game after a few years' hiatus. I need a new daily driver/autocross car and I need enough of a rear seat to drive my 3 yr old daughter around. Here are some options I'm debating:

 New

• 08 BMW 128i for DS. Not classed yet, but it'll probably end up there I guess. But then, why would this car would do better that a 330i ZHP is not clear to me: roughly same power and weight, same lack of LSD, smaller wheels(17x7/7.5 vs 18x18/18.5), and why would it have any better camber adjustment? 
  
• 08 WRX 5door also in DS. I guess better suspension f/r, but no rear LSD vs the older model. More civilized than the previous one as a DD, but dorky looking.
• 08 Mazdaspeed3 in DS.  I don't care much for FWD, test drove one and the sound really put me off as a DD. 18in wheels might help performance, but increase solo $$$.
• 08 Mini Cooper or Cooper S. A bit pricey as a DD, good performance. Wife thinks is not "manly" enough. (I think I'm man enough to pull it off!)
  

Used

• 03/04 BMW 330i ZHP. Great DD, but marginal DS competitive. Running costs might be $$$, and $20k for a used car is high for a cheapstake like me.
• 04 RX8. Marginal as a DD (trunk is tiny!), great perfromance, awful mileage.
• Audi TT AWD (225hp). Decent DD, decent competitive. A bit dull to drive IMHO, and  not crazy about looks/image.

Help!

 

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Ignasi.

The cooper S is the most competitive choice there. Adults can fit in the back as well so a 3yr old is no problem.

 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

I would not try a rear wheel drive car in D Stock unless something changes drastically with the surface at Topeka.  The Type R, R32, SRT 4, and I am assuming the MZ 3 all have such a huge advantage in hook up.  Basically, Topeka is an anomoly site when it comes to rear hookup because there is none.

 Chris

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Chris

I think the TT makes an excellent DD as long as you don't mind a 2 seater car. you can  put alot of crap in one of those things. They are excellent for road trips, by far the most comfortable car i've ever done a trip in thus far.

As for competitive in DS? i was the first to try and i got 2nd so obviously there's more in the car once people start figuring out stuff.

I'll agree on the looks thing only because i used to hate the car...then i saw one with BBS CH's and fell in love....my DD wheels are BBS CH's now...
 

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KEEP NATIONALS FROM CONCRETE! CAUSE I NEVER RUN ON IT!

2007 SCCA National DS Runner-up
Badlands SCCA
2007 Nationals Runs

Chris Kline:

I would not try a rear wheel drive car in D Stock unless something changes drastically with the surface at Topeka.  The Type R, R32, SRT 4, and I am assuming the MZ 3 all have such a huge advantage in hook up.  Basically, Topeka is an anomoly site when it comes to rear hookup because there is none.

 Chris

 

Maybe your IS300 had issues, but even without an LSD, Bryan and I had no problem with grip at Topeka in a RWD Crossfire.  At the ProFinale, I think our finish was due more to not having any sleep in 36 hours then the car's available grip. - AB

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'06 Chrysler Crossfire - #87 DS
'04 RX-8 #87 BS (retired)
'01 Celica GTS #193 STS (retired in '05)

Ignasi.:

 

Used

• 04 RX8. Marginal as a DD (trunk is tiny!), great perfromance, awful mileage.

A new RX-8 sport model (lightest) could run you less than 25K with dealer incentives if you can search and haggle.  Pretty practical except for the mileage.

Before you jump into a TT, recognize that JT had some special limited edition that came with wider wheels. He was able to mount bigger tires than other TT drivers. Unless you can legally put his wheel sizes on your TT, you might want to avoid it.

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Alan Pozner
Slow and proud

This is true my car is the ALMS Edition which comes with 18x8" wheels. The wheels that come on all the other TT's are either 17x7.5 or 18x7.5. how much is that 1/2" worth? maybe a quite a bit, maybe not. i was running 275's with just a little bit of rubbing, the 285's had less because they were shorter, but i needed the taller gearing (or so i thought).

As for options package stuff there is nothing really stopping somebody from making a 2002 225 into an "alms package" unless they make you change the colour of the leather seat, and put on special metalic paint. the alms was basically a rim and paint package that was special. it also was a bit of an option package so it came with the Bose stereo, the 6disk changer, homelink, but those are all things that you can get as options on a regular 225 TT. just a thought...
 

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KEEP NATIONALS FROM CONCRETE! CAUSE I NEVER RUN ON IT!

2007 SCCA National DS Runner-up
Badlands SCCA
2007 Nationals Runs

So, I guess you could make an ALMS Edition with big wheel, Bose, CD changer and homelink. I think the paint and leather color would not matter but you would need the stereo stuff to make the weight the same. Were there special speakers or a subwoofer and amp?

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Alan Pozner
Slow and proud

i was reviewing the specs on the different years and it looks like the 2006 is 17lbs lighter per official specs than the alms.  3230 versus 3247.  Also has a 18" wheel option versus the 17"  although i couldnt find a width on the 18" option wheel.  JT  have you ever weighed your car and what else do you have other than allignment, tires, and shocks.

I am not sold on the new WRX as a decent AX car... from what I've heard from all the local Suby-heads, they all say they really softened up the ride of that car and it's not going to be as good a car for our needs... Could prove wrong..

 The cars you mentoined all seem to have passenger/cargo space in common. While the TT is a nice car, it doesn't seem to fir what you're looking for. I would really look at what you want to do as far as nationally vs regionally. Around here there are NO ITRs running around, and DS is dominated by WRX ( in numbers ) and 1 R32, but the odd BMW 3 series cars.... So, you could get a great car to run the table locally and a good national car... or something that is fun, competitive and meets your DD needs.

Here we are just now seeing the MS3 start to show at events, but all on street tires.

 

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Brian Huber
2006 Cobalt SS-Supercharged
#58DS
Official car of One-Wheel Drive Racing's 2008 Solo campaign...
If you aint last, then you aren't driving this car.

conekiller2:

i was reviewing the specs on the different years and it looks like the 2006 is 17lbs lighter per official specs than the alms.  3230 versus 3247.  Also has a 18" wheel option versus the 17"  although i couldnt find a width on the 18" option wheel.  JT  have you ever weighed your car and what else do you have other than allignment, tires, and shocks.

 

My car weighed at nationals on the scales at 3070 with the race tires and race levels of fuel. the 2006 225 comes with 18x7.5" wheels where mine comes with the 18x8" wheels. i'm assuming that 17lbs is made up in the wheels. the ALMS wheels are a trim 28.5 lbs so to shave off 4.25 lbs per wheel with a different wheel design is entirely possible. To answer somebody else's question the bose stereo in my car is the same stereo as available on the other cars, it was just an option on those cars and on the alms it was standard.

 

My car has alignment, shocks, larger front sway bar, koni SA's, and a drop exhaust to cut weight and spool quicker.

from what i have all found over the last 2.5 years you should be able to take 2002 TT with all the options my car had and slap on the 18x8" and call it an alms with the wrong paint and wrong leather colour.
 

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KEEP NATIONALS FROM CONCRETE! CAUSE I NEVER RUN ON IT!

2007 SCCA National DS Runner-up
Badlands SCCA
2007 Nationals Runs

JT_TT:

from what i have all found over the last 2.5 years you should be able to take 2002 TT with all the options my car had and slap on the 18x8" and call it an alms with the wrong paint and wrong leather colour.

JT, I remember you previously saying your car has the 1.8T engine. Was this ALMS package ever offered on a V6 model of the Audi TT? If yes, that could be a real killer of a DS car.

I'm also very keen to see how Buckley/Hertweck/Vail do in their Crossfires this season.

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Chike Dellimore - Blue Ridge/Washington DC Regions
2006 Galaxy Gray 6MT Mazda RX-8 (B-stock)
Former 2006 Steel Gray 5spd WRX (D-stock)

"Between now and Nats, f!ck seat time - I'm working on crazy!!!"

Chiketkd:

JT, I remember you previously saying your car has the 1.8T engine. Was this ALMS package ever offered on a V6 model of the Audi TT? If yes, that could be a real killer of a DS car.

I'm also very keen to see how Buckley/Hertweck/Vail do in their Crossfires this season.

No the ALMS was only in that 1.8T. The V6 came later and would only be available with the 7.5" rims. The 3.2 does have an extra 25hp and 29lb/ft of torque but it's also hauling around an extra 100 lbs of weight for the motor. Also because they needed to move the battery to the rear of that car for weight balance they don't have a spare tire that you can remove to help lower the weight so it probably comes out to more then 100lbs difference when you hit the autocross scales.

It may to do quite well, i've never driven one...if i was going to put my money on one i would take the 2008 3.2. it's as light as mine with a bit better tuned AWD system, launch control, and the V6 torque...but i don't have the money.
 

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KEEP NATIONALS FROM CONCRETE! CAUSE I NEVER RUN ON IT!

2007 SCCA National DS Runner-up
Badlands SCCA
2007 Nationals Runs

I actually had the opportunity to drive my brothers tt which is a brand new 2.0t with the auto tranny in completely stock trim other than a giac chip.  I must say i was impressed to say the least.  The car handled extremely well and other than some lag with the auto on quick maneuvers seemed pretty good.  Not to mention 18x9 wheels and a race weight probably in the neighbourhood of 2800lbs.  I think it would be interesting to use 2.0t front wheel dr with a manual and some 295 a6's with some lightweight wheels and an exhaust.

on the topic of the TT, has anybody actually tried to autox an audi/vw with s-tronic/dsg?  is gearing good enough that shifts aren't even necessary?  the reason i ask is that the 2.0T is only available with s-tronic.  the 3.2 is available as a 6-speed manual or s-tronic.

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Dennis Healy - OR-SCCA
2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V - STX/GS [SOLD]

When i ranit i just put it in sport mode and went.  Pretty cool.  Only time it hicupped was in a real tight maneuver

Ignasi.:

• 04 RX8. Marginal as a DD (trunk is tiny!), great perfromance, awful mileage.

Help!

 

 

The trunk is tiny compared to what? Do you routinely carry around dead bodies or 4x8 sheets of plywood?

FWIW, I drove up to Nationals in '06 in my co-driver's RX-8. We had the two of us, a full set of wheels and tires in the back seat, a floor jack, a 3-gallon gas can (empty), 2 full-face helmets, a tire sprayer, two folding chairs, a cooler, all of our tools and a week's worth of luggage for both of us. Everything but the helmets, wheels and tires fit in the trunk, and both of us had plenty of room to be comfortable on the 500-mile drive to Topeka.

The trunk opening isn't the largest, but it will hold plenty of stuff. Out of the cars you've listed, I would also say the RX-8 is the truest "driver's" car and the most rewarding to drive. It really does drive like a sports car (albeit a gas guzzling one), not like a fwd/awd econobox or a fat, wannabe "sports" sedan.

Also, while the RX-8 does require 18" tires, I would be willing to bet that it would also have the lowest tire budget of all the cars you've mentioned, simply because it has good weight distribution, a real diff, and decent camber. Minis, WRXs, and BMWs tend to eat tires in Stock simply because they're camber-limited Macstrut cars (add poor weight distribution to the Mini and WRX as well). I can't imagine a 3000-lb fastback Golf is going to be easy on tires either.

Second on my list would be a used 330i ZHP, simply because I think it would be the most enjoyable daily driver out of the bunch.
 

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Iain

2004 Mazda RX-8 - former B Stock autocrosser, now daily driver and HPDE car
2005 Honda CR-V EX AWD - alphabet soup family truckster

I'd throw the SRT-4 ACR in as another DS contender than can easily accomodate 4 people and luggage.  We've had pretty good luck with the car given the somewhat limited development time we've spent on them.  Of course, I might be a bit biased, as I'm interested in selling mine...

I having the same dilemma now.  After driving Miatas for years I now have a son and I'm looking for something more practical for the family but still fun to drive and hopefull fairly competitive for autox.

My short list is:

330i ZHP - this is the car I really want, but used are $22-25K which is a big stretch financially, especially with daycare payments starting soon.  I'm also concerned about the high cost of BMW parts and maintenance and insurance.  Looks to be a good DS car, but not the best.

Mazda3 hatchback -- Economical, practicality of 4-doors and hatchback, and I could afford a brand new one.  They appear to be quite competitive in HS.

Mazdaspeed3 -- lots of power, very fast, nice interior and seats, and still practical.  DS competitiveness unknown.  Also a financial stretch to buy and used ones cost about as much as new ones.

'97-98 M3 4-door -- fun to drive, affordable to buy, but getting old with high miles which means more likely repairs and maintenance.  Not a great BS car, and not at the top of STU either.  Hard to find them with manual transmissions, and hard to find clean low-mileage examples.

 

I actually test drove a 330i ZHP today.  Not as torquey in the low and mid range as I remember my E36 M3 being, and less feel from the steering and brakes, but more comfortable and more solid feeling and with a nicer interior.  Handling was great.  Seemed like the perfect combo of family comfort, practicality, and safety plus enjoyable to drive spiritedly.