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The big thing with weight is you have to carry it through turns, slaloms and braking sections. When I switched from my 2450-2500lbs, 160hp 00 Civic Si to the 2080lbs, 125hp 91 Civic Si it was like night and day. I could brake 10-15' later, turn in so much faster, and get on the gas much quicker (same tires and same wheels).

I was about 2 seconds faster on a 60 second course 00 Civic Si vs 91 Civic Si.

Remember tires have alot to do with what you can turn an already heavy car. The 00 Civic Si did much better with 215/45x16" tires than on the 205/50x15". Gearing sucked a little but made up for it in transitions and braking.

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KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes
Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!
Buy my Civic parts!

Chris D:

gtitronic:

 

I foolishly thought the same thing this year.  My tC pushes about 163hp at the wheels and weighs about 2800lbs.  Needless to say, I'm finding I need to do a lot of suspension work so I can handle all the weight I'm throwing around the track.  Weight definitely has the advantage over the power, unless you're running on a course with straights long enough to where you can utilize all that power.

A fellow Scion driver!

I drive a 2400lb  XA with 100 gerbils of fury in STS.  With a good driver behind the wheel, it's very competitive, maybe not nationally, but locally.  With me behind the wheel, I can nip at their heels.

There's also a TC in STS who does pretty well.  He's not too modified, other than coilovers.

 As I learned, sure my car could use more power, but the most important thing is the nut behind the wheel.

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"Most amateur drivers go too fast in slow corners and too slow in fast
corners"
Emerson Fittipaldi

mrexotica:

A fellow Scion driver!

I drive a 2400lb  XA with 100 gerbils of fury in STS.  With a good driver behind the wheel, it's very competitive, maybe not nationally, but locally.  With me behind the wheel, I can nip at their heels.

There's also a TC in STS who does pretty well.  He's not too modified, other than coilovers.

 As I learned, sure my car could use more power, but the most important thing is the nut behind the wheel.

Hey hey!

I definitely should have gone suspension first.  I've basically done everything allowable inside the engine bay, and the only time I gain any edge is on fast straights where guys in all-suspension cars just can't put enough power down to keep up with the tC's monster second gear.  The rest of the time, I'm trying to keep my lunch down because I've got so much roll through the corners.  It takes days for the car to settle out of a turn, too.

I can totally see the xA being competitive, too.  It's basically a Toyota Mini. 

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#12 STS 2007 Scion tC
#24 ITS/DSP 1991 Nissan 240SX

mrexotica:

 

A fellow Scion driver!

I drive a 2400lb  XA with 100 gerbils of fury in STS.  With a good driver behind the wheel, it's very competitive, maybe not nationally, but locally.  With me behind the wheel, I can nip at their heels.

There's also a TC in STS who does pretty well.  He's not too modified, other than coilovers.

 As I learned, sure my car could use more power, but the most important thing is the nut behind the wheel.

 

you wouldn't happen to race at Rt66 in Joliet, would you?  at the Learners Curve two weeks ago there was an xA that pulled amazing times when the instructor was driving it.  i couldn't believe how good it did!  i actually did better than my instructor in my car...but he's used to a stock Si, and i have a zx2 that is pretty much to the max in STS.

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yup - that's my car!

I was also there last Sunday.

 

TC, as for keeping you in your seat, I got a street-legal Schroth harness this year & it really keeps me in my seat.

I don't have a lot done as far as the suspension.  Just a Progress rear anti-sway bar & Eibach coils w/ stock dampers.

for tires, though, I squeezed a 225 in my fenders. I figured if my car won't go fast, I'll make it corner fast...

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"Most amateur drivers go too fast in slow corners and too slow in fast
corners"
Emerson Fittipaldi

mrexotica:

yup - that's my car!

I was also there last Sunday.

 

TC, as for keeping you in your seat, I got a street-legal Schroth harness this year & it really keeps me in my seat.

I don't have a lot done as far as the suspension.  Just a Progress rear anti-sway bar & Eibach coils w/ stock dampers.

for tires, though, I squeezed a 225 in my fenders. I figured if my car won't go fast, I'll make it corner fast...

Where are you from?  You don't plan on doing any Milwaukee events this year do you?  I'd like to see how your tA runs up here  

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Ryan K

redwhale240:

mrexotica:

yup - that's my car!

I was also there last Sunday.

 

TC, as for keeping you in your seat, I got a street-legal Schroth harness this year & it really keeps me in my seat.

I don't have a lot done as far as the suspension.  Just a Progress rear anti-sway bar & Eibach coils w/ stock dampers.

for tires, though, I squeezed a 225 in my fenders. I figured if my car won't go fast, I'll make it corner fast...

Where are you from?  You don't plan on doing any Milwaukee events this year do you?  I'd like to see how your tA runs up here  

 

So would I.  If you can do well in ST here...you can do well anywhere.

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Erik B.
Wisconsin Autocrossers, Inc
www.waiautox.org ___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___
2007 Mazda6
2000 "Fozda" ZX2 S/R--STS Anti-Civic

turbohappy:

Weight is definitely more important, to a point. You have to have some power though. And a good suspension design. It's a mix for sure. If weight completely dominated the other factors, you'd see 1600 or 1700 lb cars on top of STS, not 2000 lb cars.

Hoping to change that a little personally. . . but I'm sure I'm going to need a better driver than currently available (that means me).

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"Drag racing is for fast cars, autocrossing is for fast drivers"

Anybody willing to try a 1rst gen Ford Festiva?  1598lb curb weight and a 1.3L 88HP with a 5-speed.  Subaru Justy Or maybe a 1989 VW Fox with 89HP and a 2009lb curb weight.  Maybe even old jettas and rabits.  Has anybody tried some of these old oddities?  All lighter then the civic si but have low hp.

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Ryan K

redwhale240:

Anybody willing to try a 1rst gen Ford Festiva?  1598lb curb weight and a 1.3L 88HP with a 5-speed.  Subaru Justy Or maybe a 1989 VW Fox with 89HP and a 2009lb curb weight.  Maybe even old jettas and rabits.  Has anybody tried some of these old oddities?  All lighter then the civic si but have low hp.

 

88hp is very optamistic for a Ford/Mazda 1.3.  I sold those, as well as Aspires.  As I recall, they did not even make 70hp, though they did rev like a sewing machine.  With 88 HP stock, you'd maybe have something...at 20 less, no so much as I can see.

 

The Civic offers a recipe that is tough, to beat.  Anything that is really any lighter has no power.  Anything that has more power--like my car--is at least 200, if not 300+ pounds heavier.  Now add in the fact that there are a plethora of suppliers for the go-fast bits...and like I said...tough to beat. 

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Erik B.
Wisconsin Autocrossers, Inc
www.waiautox.org ___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___
2007 Mazda6
2000 "Fozda" ZX2 S/R--STS Anti-Civic

The only one that comes close on paper is the 89-94 Swift GT/GTi with 1768lbs and 100hp.  I've heard that "it's been done and doesn't work" but haven't seen anything to confirm that.  So Hopefully next season we'll see one out there going at the Civics.  If not, I'm sure I'll have a ball anyway.

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"Drag racing is for fast cars, autocrossing is for fast drivers"

Bobzilla:

The only one that comes close on paper is the 89-94 Swift GT/GTi with 1768lbs and 100hp.  I've heard that "it's been done and doesn't work" but haven't seen anything to confirm that.  So Hopefully next season we'll see one out there going at the Civics.  If not, I'm sure I'll have a ball anyway.

 

http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/79744.aspx

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Erik B.
Wisconsin Autocrossers, Inc
www.waiautox.org ___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___
2007 Mazda6
2000 "Fozda" ZX2 S/R--STS Anti-Civic

ebnrt:

 

http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/79744.aspx

Yeah, I already read that one.  One person started it 4 years ago but went to the Civic instead.  4 years is a long time and I have a habit of going the wrong way to have a good time anyway.  Car is in the garage, we'll see how it turns out.  At worst it'll just be fun to drive and have a ball.  At best it may be better than we all thought.  Either way, I'm no getting rich doing this so I might as well have fun trying!

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"Drag racing is for fast cars, autocrossing is for fast drivers"

Oh...I must have missed the part about you actually having one...or at least was incapable of picking up on the "hopefully we'll see next year" comment (Duh).

 

Cool.  Do you have your "paper" build-out prepared?  Curious to see what is out there for those cars...

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Erik B.
Wisconsin Autocrossers, Inc
www.waiautox.org ___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___
2007 Mazda6
2000 "Fozda" ZX2 S/R--STS Anti-Civic

Current plans are for some off the shelf stuff, Koni inserts, H&R springs, poly bushings, prom replacement,  ft & rr upper strut bar(rear will need to be made), rear sway bar from the later sedans (19mm).  I'm planning on the current Konig Holes I'm using on the Elantra wrapped in 205/40/16 RT-615's.  The car already has a Header and catback installed.

We'll see.  It'll be fun regardless.  I'm new to the sport, starting my second year now in my 2800lb, 140hp Elantra.  I imagine losing 1000lbs between these two cars will be a steep learning curve!

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"Drag racing is for fast cars, autocrossing is for fast drivers"

Definitely stay on street tires Bob. The one thing I keep hearing about is rolling them on R compounds!

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Brian Davis, 89 Civic Si, 158 STS

I don't get that Brian.  Car is (stock) same height as the civics.  Lowered would be the same, no? 

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"Drag racing is for fast cars, autocrossing is for fast drivers"

Bobzilla:

I don't get that Brian.  Car is (stock) same height as the civics.  Lowered would be the same, no? 

I think it's the narrower width and much different suspension. I honestly thought it was taller as well. I don't have any experience, I've just heard it in several threads. 

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Brian Davis, 89 Civic Si, 158 STS

Same here.

Sitting next to the Elantra (on H&R's) on it's stock suspension it is almost an inch shorter.  The H&R's will bring it down another 1.5".

I also am taking your advice on tire size by not going too tall.  Looking at 205/40/16 RT-615's for next year, unless bridgestone offers the RE01 or RE11 in that size by next spring.

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"Drag racing is for fast cars, autocrossing is for fast drivers"

I think that the 205 RT615 will be just fine for the Swift.  Not so good for the heavy Elantras that we have, as you well know.

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Paul Greif
927 STS
2006 Hyundai Elantra GT
(2,800 lb. nose-heavy pig)
http://www.elantraclub.com
http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/