SCCAForums.com

What would make an FFR cobra a good or bad X-Prepared car?

1. Slow Steering Rack? - Im sure faster racks are available

2. Weight - 1200 + 200x5.0 = 2100 lbs for a 302 based ford crate engine with 460 hp (http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9934) & lightweight 4 speed & no ABS. 2150lbs with ABS.

3. Suspension - Rear IRS from Thunderbird & front dual A-Arm with appropriate coilovers etc..

4. Any negatives??

5. Weight Distribution - im sure it cant be that bad. 

Anyone driven properly set up kit cobras on autocross courses? 380-390 whp off a an off the shelf crate motor in a 2150 lbs car with transmission & rear end gear completely flexible without a solid rear axle sounds & coilovers all around with a tube chassis SOUNDs. like a great recipe.

---

Vinax
1994 BMW 325i FP AutoX car.
http://www.myfastbmw.com

#1, faster racks are available, and legal. So the only downside is if you don't want to convert because of dual use, or cost.

#2, the weight formula is supposed to provide parity. Personally, I think large displacement cars have a weight advantage in XP over the small bore cars.

#3, if there is any problem with the suspension, the rule allowances let you change any part of it including notching or adding brackets to the frame.

#4 bad aero starting point.

#5 at 2150 you should be adding some ballast. Add it where necessary. If the proposal for Prepared to weigh with driver at an additional 200 lbs and you are below that, you get to add even more well placed ballast.

 

Big advantages: can use almost any available wheel or tire size. Lots of cheap motor available. Good sight lines out of the car.

---

Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio.

I've always thought an FFR Cobra would be a good choice for XP.  Ideally, I'd start with an aluminum-block 5.0l, add traction control, then ballast with some BEEFY rear subframe braces to get more weight over the rear wheels.

---

Steve Garnjobst
#75 XP
'99 Mazda Mutant

vinax:

.... Weight - 1200 + 200x5.0 = 2100 lbs for a 302 based ford crate engine with 460 hp (http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9934) & lightweight 4 speed & no ABS. 2150lbs with ABS.

Please Note:  The engine you linked to is actually 347CID, which is ~5.69 litres.  So, the resulting weight minimum in your example would be 2,338 lbs, or 2,378 lbs with ABS.

-Steve 

---

Steve Garnjobst
#75 XP
'99 Mazda Mutant

vinax:

What would make an FFR cobra a good or bad X-Prepared car?

It's good because you have more freedom with the frame than other potential XP players.

Dave McIllvanie has done quite well with his, especially when you consider that it's very much a dual purpose car.  It's his primary street car.
 

---

Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

MNbiker:

vinax:

.... Weight - 1200 + 200x5.0 = 2100 lbs for a 302 based ford crate engine with 460 hp (http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9934) & lightweight 4 speed & no ABS. 2150lbs with ABS.

Please Note:  The engine you linked to is actually 347CID, which is ~5.69 litres.  So, the resulting weight minimum in your example would be 2,338 lbs, or 2,378 lbs with ABS.

-Steve 

Was misdirected by the displacement shown on http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/302smallblock.asp 

Anyway 302 @ 390hp maybe better than 347 @ 450 hp especially without traction control & asphault autocross pads. Why run the extra weight? 

---

Vinax
1994 BMW 325i FP AutoX car.
http://www.myfastbmw.com

vinax:

MNbiker:

vinax:

.... Weight - 1200 + 200x5.0 = 2100 lbs for a 302 based ford crate engine with 460 hp (http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9934) & lightweight 4 speed & no ABS. 2150lbs with ABS.

Please Note:  The engine you linked to is actually 347CID, which is ~5.69 litres.  So, the resulting weight minimum in your example would be 2,338 lbs, or 2,378 lbs with ABS.

-Steve 

Was misdirected by the displacement shown on http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/302smallblock.asp 

Anyway 302 @ 390hp maybe better than 347 @ 450 hp especially without traction control & asphault autocross pads. Why run the extra weight? 

 

 

Along those same lines.... I'd consider the SVO 2.3L turbo motor...   Similar power output... and less weight.

---

Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

129STS:

Along those same lines.... I'd consider the SVO 2.3L turbo motor...   Similar power output... and less weight.

A Cobra with a 4-banger?  That's just not right!

I wonder if the 2.3L turbo engine is actually any lighter than a 5.0L built with an aluminum block.  An aluminum 5.0 can be built pretty light.

On a semi-related note - does anyone know what rear suspension David's running under his car these days? FFR offers both solid axle & IRS, but I seem to recall the IRS having some issues. 

---

Steve Garnjobst
#75 XP
'99 Mazda Mutant

if you are really looking to make an xp car, a cobra is way too big and you dont want to carry weight for anything over 2 or 3  liters.  you can make plenty of autocross power at that weight if you have big bucks

 

that said, it would be really COOL, and in todays field could compete until someone gets serious.

for that matter, why would ANY cobra kit not be legal along with the FFR if they have the same dimensions and a stock dimension cobra body...?  i'd love to race a higher quality kit/show car for fun.  For instance a Superformance Mk III?

 

 

 

The last I knew, Dave was running a solid axle torque arm rear suspension on his FFR cobra.  The FFR IRS works quite well, it's the front suspension that can use a little reworking.

With a 90" wheel base, I would not consider the cobra too big.

Craig
EM68 VPM Cobra 

Craig Mapstone:

With a 90" wheel base, I would not consider the cobra too big.

Craig
EM68 VPM Cobra 

 I think it's the width that is considered "big"

 

It's all on paper anyway until XP starts beating SM2, ASP, etc...  consistently.

---

Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

So, what is a good width for XP?

Craig
EM68 VPM Cobra
 

For a Cobra in XP, or for XP in general?

My Europa looks like it will be right at 62" wide on 11" slicks.

Be careful of the minimum track rule though. You can't have a track any narrower than the car originally had.

---

Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio.

For XP in general?

I'll have to double check, but I believe my cobra has a front track width of around 57" and a rear track of around 58".  This is measured center to center of tires.  The rear slicks are 12" and front is 11".

Thanks,

Craig
EM68 VPM Cobra

 

I think it would be outstanding.  And even if someone built something tiny like a Sprite or an Elan, you'd still have one of the coolest cars in the class.  ;)

Do it!


 

---

Robert Puertas
www.EvoSchool.com

I think the FFR is an excellent choice for XP, at least until the BP rules (which it is currently listed under) are phased out and it would be placed into EM. Very affordable, you have an excellent base to start and posibilities are endless (but that is the case for all of XP).

Jesse, I though we were going to keep the turbo-4-FFR hush-hush. I do think that a 500+ hp 2.3 turbo FFR would be absolutely awesome. It might be a bit over weight though. I figure the lowest you could get a FFR is about 2050#.

Steve, Craig is correct, I am running a solid axle torque-arm rear end with all spring and no bars and it workd well for me. Any other set-up and I would advise giving Craig a call for some kick ass bars.

A good width for an XP car......narrow! My car is too wide at 73".

I have always told people don't even think about it, just build it. You will not be sorry.