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Well put, Stuart.  I've only been in the class a few years, and haven't run against any FAs except at Nationals, so I don't have a feel for their strong and weak points compared to SRs.  In any class there are cars that are more competitive than others, and it may be that SRs are better suited for the solo courses we're seeing at nationals.  If that's the case, I don't think a weight increase for DSRs is automatically justified.  It would be mayhem if every class saw weight adjustments in an attempt to equalize the competition.

Are any of the FAs making their minimum weight?  If the minimum weight is artificially low, why not lobby to have the FA minimum weight increased (to reflect reality) and wing area increased to offset the weight increase?

Happy New Year to all of you.  I have really enjoyed the company of the BMod guys and gals at nationals, and hope to see you again in '08.

 Jeff

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Jeff in Colorado
1998 Omni-Fab Cheetah SR-1
66 BM

Also well put, Jeff. It seems the norm to penalize the fast cars in any class. There will always be competitive and not-so-competitive cars in all classes, inlcuing B/Mod. Look at all the stock classes, oh my God, let's not and say we did!!! Look at the wide range of cars, brands, models, years, etc. etc. etc.!!! This is one of the main reason I will never run in stock or SP, XYZ, ABC, etc. Plus, I cannot keep up with all those classes. SCCA adds a few every couple of months just to tick me off! OK, I may be exagerating a little here.

Let's take a look at C/Mod. I ran an FF for almost 20 years in B/M & C/M, I won the title the first year of C/M the way it is now in 1990. Several of us said for years that the Sport 2000 cars should kick FF's butts, but they were not doing it. But, no one "really" prepped one either. Then Guy Ankeny came along and he did just what we said would happen. He prepared a S2000 very well, drove it very well, did a ton of testing and seat time and guess what? It worked Great and he won! You got to have the whole package.

I also own a '66 Volvo 122S 2-door with IPD suspension, header, weber, etc. It is my street toy. But if I wanted to Auto-X one of these again and of course I would want to win, what change would I have to get done within that class to slow down the other cars so I can win? The newer cars are just too fast and have better suspensions, etc.

 

Stuart

Well stuart , it is nice to play arm chair  psychic , engineering data shows that unless the SR cars (DSR) have weight added , a true atlantic  from a real manufacture cannot win with against a DSR with the same good driver.  That is the fact , So  unless either weights are increased  or  a bastard atlantic is produced   the real atlantics have no chance .

I have proposed a fair weight solution, but again you DSR folks want the overdog position, tommy got  the average weight reduced on the dsrs, when it should have been increased by 100 to 200 pounds  that is dishonest but usual tommy ..

This is all facts and engineering not emotion.

 

jg 

 

Yes they do,  real numbers  not emotion,

notstock:

Well stuart , it is nice to play arm chair  psychic , engineering data shows that unless the SR cars (DSR) have weight added , a true atlantic  from a real manufacture cannot win with against a DSR with the same good driver.  That is the fact , So  unless either weights are increased  or  a bastard atlantic is produced   the real atlantics have no chance .

Once again you compare a "stock" Atlantic to a "bastard" DSR. As if the Dragon would be competitive as a road racing SR. Compare apples to apples and your data will have more meaning.

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Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio.

Hi Stuart!!!

The reason I started this discussion was because I can see that the numbers are falling ever so slightly since I left the class. I didn't ask for weight to be added to the SR's, I asked for more wings on the FA's, if anyone doubts how much wings help, just make a few runs with them, then remove them and make a few more runs, I did exactly that many years ago and can tell you that they do help quite a bit.

Stewie: No, there is no chance in h*ll that my Ralt will ever see HPT, the CP Camaro probably will never see HPT again either. So if you want to run against me you'll have to meet me in D Mod, which is where I'll be in '08. Yes, I've seen the writing on the wall, err... asphalt... and I'm going narrow with a 1400 lb Europa. 

Jesus

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Jesus Villarreal
D mod Europa

Jesus,

 I would not be opposed to bigger wings for the FA's. I have run the Dragon with and without wings, they really do work.

B/Mod is struggling to meet the numbers, but I hope it will survive. I wish I knew what the answer is to bring in more people. F/M is a good entry level, my opinion, to a mod class, that or maybe C/M. C/M is a great class, I kind of miss it. The FF's are such a great and reliable car, I think people feel they are to expension, or too complicated, but they are really a good cheap way to have a ton of fun.

After driving Bowland's A/M at Nationals this year, I tell you that is a way cool car. I sure wish we had been at Forbes and not HPT. I do not blame you for not bringing the Ralt out, or even the Camaro. I hope the D/M Lotus is fun. I just think it would be fun to run against you again.

One of the best thing the B/Mod guys can do to help build the class up is to let some other people drive  their cars, maybe get themselves a full time co-driver. It has really worked well for me and Tommy. I may be the official tire warmer on our team, but I sure get to drive a very cool car. When Tommy and I teamed, we knew we would really push each other, and we have. Plus, you always have some good competition.

One last thing guys, get your tails to Topeka this September. Win, lose or draw, I assure you will have a great time. Where else can you get that many B/Mod's together.

 Stuart

Stuart, two B-Mods debuted at in Houston this weekend. The Moulckers brought out a 1974 Legrand that they will be preparing for Solo work and I had my "in excess" D-Mod LLA7.

Neither of us were fast, but for first events it was OK.

FWIW, Three people drove my car and two drove Moulckers'.

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Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio.

Well, that is cool. Tommy and I have not been to Houston recently because there was no one to run against. Maybe we can make down there this year.

 Stuart

Jesus,

Do you know if this '74 Legrand you saw was Craig Farr's old car? I know he bought a new DSR but wasn't sure if he sold the Legrand. When he had it is was flat black and yellow, I think with Kawasaki power.

I have found that the Legrand type DSR's are not really any more expensive than an F500 to get into. Mine was very inexpensive to purchase, the engines/transmissions are inexpensive if you stay close to stock and they make good power, tires are pretty similar in cost, and you get suspension and a real shifter! Great bang for the buck in a real race package that does not require a huge trailer or tow vehicle.

The one thing I do find when at local events is that most everyone has never heard of a DSR.  Not sure how to get the word out outside of attending events and being a good ambassador for the class. 

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Joe Gonzalez
1979 Legrand DSR- B Mod
Gilbertsville, NY

Gonzo_BMod:

   Not sure how to get the word out outside of attending events and being a good ambassador for the class. 

 

I dunno ... you look like a pretty dangerous character to me .....

Gonzo_BMod:

Jesus,

Do you know if this '74 Legrand you saw was Craig Farr's old car? I know he bought a new DSR but wasn't sure if he sold the Legrand. When he had it is was flat black and yellow, I think with Kawasaki power.

I'm Jason, not Jesus. Yes, the old Farr car is now in Houston and yes, it has *** power.

Stewart, don't bother coming to Houston just yet. All of us PAXed very poorly this time. Give us a few months to get up to speed.

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Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio.

Joe,

 I agree, the B/Mod's are not THAT expensive. Also, I saw your old car owner, Perry Simonds, on New Years Day at Tommy's. He just moved to Dallas about two weeks ago, so we will be seeing more of him. He says he is looking for an F/Mod.

Jason, we will come to Houston, I have a brother and some in-laws there. I was raised in Beaumont.

Stuart

Stuart,

Please say hello to Perry for me. He and I never actually met in person since he had already left for Colorado when we picked up the car at his parent's house. Let him know his old car is being enjoyed!

 

Jason,

Sorry about the name confusion. Not too many old Legrands around so I thought that might be Craig's old car. I think I saw that car in Atlanta before Craig bought it. It has potential, but if I recall it has a pretty heavy and substantial cage in it so it will be tough to make the 1020# weight with it.

 

 

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Joe Gonzalez
1979 Legrand DSR- B Mod
Gilbertsville, NY

Gonzo_BMod:

Do you know if this '74 Legrand you saw was Craig Farr's old car? I know he bought a new DSR but wasn't sure if he sold the Legrand. When he had it is was flat black and yellow, I think with Kawasaki power.

It is Craig's old car - he's driving a 2005 A-Mac now.  The Legrand (actually a "Gazzorman" with a space-frame based on Legrand Mk 18 plans) is heavy but Craig upgraded it with a fuel-injected 2004 ZX-10R.  It was the only one of four Legrands I found available that met the 80" wheelbase minimum for B-Mod.  One of the others is a Mk 25 project but its logbooks list the wheelbase as 78".

My son Chris and I have a lot to learn about driving it but, thanks to a software error that excludes X-class raw times in our region (Sorry David Hedderick!), we did post FTOD in our first event.  Quite a difference from the last two seasons when we've raced our 914's (914-4 DSP, 914-6 BS).  There's no going back now!

Mike

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A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

Mike,

My son runs with me in ours as well. It's his first solo ride and it has actually been quite forgiving. They are very fun and simple cars, lots of potential. Hope you enjoy running yours, maybe see you at Nationals?
 

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Joe Gonzalez
1979 Legrand DSR- B Mod
Gilbertsville, NY

Joe,

We're having a blast!

We do hope to make it up to Nationals this year.  Hopefully we'll have learned to drive by the time the National Tour goes through Dallas and we go up against the guys (and gals, Brianne) up there.  Of course Jason'll have real tires on his car before that so it'll soon be competitive down here!

Thanks,
Mike

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A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

Mike,

 

Tommy and I look forward to meeting up with you and Chris. B/Mod is great fun, as you are finding out, you know, the more the merrier!

I am not sure at this time we will make it to Houston this year, but if you make it to Dallas, you can bet we will be there.

Stuart

#99 B/M

Thanks Stuart, we look forward to meeting you, too.

Mike

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A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

Should I be concerned that air-cooled Formula Super Vees are no longer in the GCR?  They were removed a few years ago as a national FC class.  So, I have a car that for 20+ years was in the GCR but now it is  not.
There fore by rule, I should not run in B Modified but run in A Modified. 

I don't believe anyone would file a protest, etc.   I am completely out gunned as it is.  But would an event official care?

For conjecture  

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TeamFRD - 1974 Royale RP18 - http://drive.to/TeamFRD ~~~ Historic Formula Super Vee Register - http://drive.to/FSV