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LET us be very clear, Tommy Saunders car was not designed by anyone still living. And next Mr, Dragon (yes i know his name)  cannot Drive any better than I can, furthermore   he   just copied the mk25 legrand  construction and lengthened the lower and upper track rods without even moving the diff.on the rear suspension ,  The car ate u joints continously over the past years  until the axle angles and plunge depths were corrected. 

It was a very badly constructed  and lengthened mk25 legrand . I have done significant repairs on that car at 2 nationals that if I had not done , the car would not have made the podium due to being out for repair.

I have provided  cv joints  at many events and technical suggestions for each year after tommy bought the car to get the car reliable ,

The entire rear suspension, supports , rear frame , as well as differential axles and  driveline has been re engineered and replaced in the past 4 years , the cooling system has been replaced and reworked, ackerman has been redone, the suspension including  sway bars, control arms in rear  all have been removed and replaced., a quaife added from taylor and mounts from from Janco, Janco has done all the work on fabrication above in addition to , new roll bars , attachments,  UTA designed and fabricated shifter and clutch control ,  New fuel pump system , Brakes and wheels corrected , Tommy tried to put the rain tires and wheels on the car a couple of years ago and they interfered so bad that they locked up the front wheels and he had to borrow some from another car,   An illegal belly pan was replaced  last year , The breather system has been reworked  I might add all the above was accomplished with lighter and less robust materials without effecting the tub , so that more ballast had to be added to remain legal.

 Tommy has reworked the glass due to how badly it was falling apart and due to a fire in his trailer caused by a short in the cars electrical system . The rear body fits extremely poorly over the lengthened suspension so tommy is going to redo the rear wheel wells next year .

So saying anything about Mr dragon and his work does not buy a whole lot, nor support his prowess of design cus he has done none, and he drives as badly as I do.  ( ask Vern Lyle about his Mr dragon legrand  experiences)

 Your car was lengthened  here in Texas;  but still had the spool in the rear end  and unless you changed the motor had a weak engine in it , It is a MK18 car  ,

 I welded the original lower arms after the heim insert weld broke  at a local event .

. Perry reworked the entire rear suspension  on your car right before he sold it  He does immaculate work.

Jg

First Bmod is and has been a basically GCR or slightly modified GCR class. It's intent ( Jesus jump in here) has been an outlet for GCR  regulated cars  with easily reversible changes  to be placed into competition without reducing the ability of the vehicle to revert to a competative GCR car  as well as maintain the  Economic value of the car after life in Club race or solo , remember formula cars compete and are constructed on a very well controlled set of rules called a formula . The Formula's  have always been based in part or completely on  internationally homologated Racing classes  and as such  are very restrictive in construction ,minimum weight , engines , transmission designs etc .  The class was originally intended to allow cars to compete in solo on one weekend and compete in ( yes)  vintage or  a club or international  event the next weekend with maybe only minor changes ( never really materialized that way ) .  As I understand it the way the rules were written way before my time was so that SR  Legrands were actually outlawed from Bmod , as if one constructed  one according to Legrands original plans they all would be at 76 inch wheel base  and thus not meet the 80 inch wheel base rule  and thus would by omission be AMOD  not BMod.  Since  SR cars especially DSR mc cars and FS mc cars almost have no rules and for the most part have no internationally sanctioned equivalent ,In general and in  solo one is not automatically rewarded by building a car into a  GCR class that has little if no rules those were generally called amod in the past .  As a result especially for FS cars and DSR cars built to GCR rules and not wanting to run at minimum weight, wheel base , track or Balast can now and always have been allowed to Run as AMOD cars.

As I have heard it ( Jesus help here) The SR cars were deemed to be a possible dominant element in class even with old technology engines so The atlantics, were given the ability to run enhanced engines and run tires up to the maximum for the largest allowed in the GCR class, but had weights applied that was displacement based  and achievable to ensure equilization of  the atlantics if one used a cosworth engine. ( quick Note here is that even current 1600 toyota  based swift 014 cars,  all carbon fiber ,have trouble meeting 1250 weight )

Your last line  discussions are exactly why weight Must be added to DSR/1 liter bike   cars to run against  The hodpodge  of other cars in BMOD  or they need to be placed in another class. You have agreed with me and Jesus  even though want to take your ball and go home if you and other DSR cars cannot be OVER DOGS .

 However in your comparison to formula one:

You completely subvert or are not skilled enough to understand what I have said. ( I doubt the latter as you have proven with at least some of your  writings you understand the technical issues and  problems with the 1liter bike motors against autoderived engines. Kudos on at least admitting it publically  I admire sportsmanship and fairness)

Again at speed on a road course the aero force produces force vectors into the structure that  are identical to the same static weight applied at the same points,  From a force on the chassis standpoint and in direct responce to your claim that you would have to reengineer the car to carry extra weight , again you do not !! ;  down force and static weight apply the same  exact loads if they are the same in magnitude . 100 pounds is 100 pounds  regardless if it comes from lead or from a wing.

Lower static weight as I have already explained , but again you have neither understood  or choose for your  own  ends to ignore and go emotional ,  effects  The ability to accelerate a body ,( on a non tire limited vehicle , ) the  system is controlled by  the equation F=Ma.

Down force improves tire normal force  but imparts exactly the same forces as if one were to  replace it with weight at the same attachements. 

 Static weight is a great leveler for classes because it effects F=Ma  and for  road race GCR classes that have aero , the chassis all already can take the static weight addition with no additional re enforcements needed, when; for solo ;the speed is reduced to under 80mph . 

 Static weight addition on some DSR's  may also be a very big improvement on a short wheel base car because it does not change as a function of speed and /Or if designed to help weight transfer by careful placement .  So by distributing the weight properly; the car may handle at low speeds much better after the weight than before. Formula one redistributes weight in the form of ballast for every track  or for different temperature/ tire conditions .

 Now your arguement of formula one is just plain emotional ,....... From an engineering stand point  Your  example actually supports Jesus's suggestion of added weight to a DSR to equalize a car and that it does not hurt the integrity of the vehicle nor does it hurt slow speed handleing ability .

Added weight does effect acceleration  ;  so is very good at equalizing vehicles or Horses  on courses requireing bursts of acceleration with small aero and just like in both cases; if the structure (horse or car )already can handle the forces ( as we have already fully proven ) does not require a bigger horse or changes to the vehicle beyond ballast attachements. Jockeys wear weight vests to equalize carried weight on horses .

Formula one is a very long wheel base car , the cars acceleration capability is limited by tire traction, engine HP and static weight ,  Aero DRAG limits Top speed ,  so it has exactly the same issues  any formula car  or DSR has .  Static Weight is the low speed to high speed limiter  with a given set of tires and engine, ( F=Ma,)  a good example of how STATIC weight is so significant is Renault  Got disqualified  a few years Back for having extra weight  , above the minimum , but had the weights contained in a spring pendulum arrangement to amplify the weight transfer  effects  on the front of the car.

They were able to back out a significant amount of wing down force  that resulted in ,"reduced high speed drag ",  that resulted in raised   top speed , at the expense of  a little slower acceleration but much faster corner entry and exit with the moving weights and faster terminal speeds in the straights due to lower down force, This resulted in an overall average speed gain in most tracks over many laps,  Another team was disqualified for trying to pump fuel around the car into different cells,   dynamically to effect STATIC weight distribution while running.   SO formula one does Know exactly what i have been open and honest about  and uses it to their advantage .

In the Case of Renault , During breaking; the static weight resisted nose bounce and caused the cg to be shifted forward against a spring so slow speed corner entry was dramaticaly improved  as well as corner exit when the weight shifted rearward . The on board computer could freeze the location of the weight so that in high speed  or low speed portions of a course the best STATIC weight distribution could be achieved. Different values of static weight or none were added depending on the circuit .  The Mass dampers were 15cm By 15 cm at each corner and had a weight and springs  that were located in a inclined or almost vertical tube. The weight material being used by Renault was rumored to be depleated uranium fo compactness.

This STATIC WEIGHT  spring pendulum as well as the fuel pumping , was determined to be illegal because it Gave Renault and other team   a very large advantage due to the movable  STATIC weight .  The moving weight was determined illegal as   not meeting the "ballast must be secured rule " as well as movable aerodynamic influence device provision on interpretation by the FIA.  

From speed tv experts

The F1 regulations demand that the combined weight of the car and driver should be a minimum of 600 kilos. With the exception of fuel, the weight of the car includes all its fluids and lubricants: engine and transmission oils; engine coolant; and fluids for both brake and hydraulic systems. The driver’s weight includes everything he would normally wear whilst driving: gloves, boots, underwear, overalls, helmet.

Fuel is excluded from the car’s minimum weight because it must not be used as a ballast. A full tank of fuel will add 100 kilos to the car’s mass. If the FIA allowed fuel to be taken into consideration when calculating the car’s weight, then any team (that had managed to build a sufficiently lightweight car) could, in theory, remove 100 kilos of ballast from their chassis prior to the start of the race and run underweight. This would give a massive performance advantage. Then, by filling the fuel tank during a very late pit stop, the car could be re-ballasted, returning its mass back to 600 kilos in readiness for post-race scrutineering. A dastardly trick.

With the FIA ignoring the mass of the onboard fuel, however, everyone can sleep soundly, secure in the knowledge that all teams are observing the same set of rules. Indeed, should they deem it necessary, the FIA’s scrutineers are at liberty to request the fuel tank be thoroughly drained before weighing the car.

The above is an extreme example, I’m unaware of any current car/driver combination that needs 100 kilos of ballast to comply with the FIA’s minimum weight requirements. It’s usual for the cars to carry somewhere between 40 to 75 kilograms of ballast. The top three or four teams may well run a little more, the lower teams a tad less.

It’s a perfectly reasonable question to ask why the teams continually strive to make their cars as lightweight as possible, knowing they are required to reach the same minimum weight before competing. why aren’t the teams content to manufacturer a car that weighs, say, 590 kilograms, and then play with a mere 10 kilogram of ballast?

The answer is that more ballast is preferable for the engineers as it allows them to lower the car’s centre of gravity: get more of the car’s weight as close to the ground as possible. A low centre of gravity improves chassis handling; the car is more stable and reacts quicker to steering input and direction change.

In fact, as the engineers and drivers work to improve the balance of their cars, controlling both understeer and oversteer, playing with the precise positioning of the ballast has become an important part of the process. The mechanics are always being asked to shift a percentage of the onboard ballast: “take two kilos out of the rear, add two kilos more at the front, please.”

John Garcia

Again My degrees, experience and understanding  prove  that BS does not beat science except in discussions of man , monkeys, and emotion.

Are these the correct current BMod weights allowed?

FA- 2V to 1600cc- 1100 lb
      4V to 1600cc- 1180 lb
      up to 3000cc-  1285 lb (is this where rotary engined cars run?)

CSR- 1075 lb with no engine restrictions.

DSR- 1020 lb with MC based 1000cc
 

The club racing rules show:

FA- Between 1160lb and 1230lb depending on engine (with the 1230 being the rotary engine cars)

CSR- Between 1100lb and 1225lb depending on cc's for motorcycle engine cars

DSR- 900lb for MC engine cars

 
So the Solo weights compared to GCR weights penalize the DSR cars by 120lbs, credit the CSR cars by (25lbs to 150 lbs), and penalize the Mazda engined cars by 55lbs. Is that correct? Outside of the CSR based BMod weights, which according to Chuck have been corrected for 2008, I continue to fail to see the case for adding more weight to a DSR.

At the GCR weights this year the top FA car at the Runoffs qualified 2.5 seconds faster than the top DSR. The top CSR, literally the same car (with Viking bodywork) and driver as the FA pole car, qualified on CSR pole within a tenth of the DSR pole.

 
Does anyone know where one of the new FB cars would run if they were going to Solo? I am assuming B-Mod.
 

All rotaries run at 1285 regardless of the porting or if it is a 12a or 13B . You again provide more data that supports claims of all the physics going on and has already been stated, and continues to support the need for more weight in Ax events for the DSR cars.

 As we have all indicated  classing and weights in club racing have no bearing on equilized solo performance period ,they are not designed intended nor were ever concieved of  for that purpose in club racing . They have no merit in determining Solo performance  as the course and battlefield is not the same 

 Sort Of Like you saying we should make atomic ( non neutron) hand grenades  cus the atomic bomb has such high yield you need less of them to kill the enemy or they work great for tanks, need only one and it only has to be close to the tank to work,

 Pretty stupid and ignorant over all concept in a hand grenade,, If one really understands atomic blast  weapons  ,  but maybe not so far fetched if  shot from a cannon , again wrong assumption ,conclusion and application due to ignorance ,evil or desire to be overdogs but not based on fact or engineering .  Yes a  big ass KAMAKAZEE arm grenade might work but I would not want to be within 2 miles on any side when it went off, just plain dumb,even worse than less than stupid .

Club Racing rules  are based on an oval or road course with long straights ,In road racing  one goes round and round  over the same course for from between 15min and 2.5 hours depending on the circuit and the event. Cars with  higher terminal velocity because of  better high speed stability or lower drag  aero can  be faster over the average than lower weight cars with higher down force. 

Road race not solos . All the above as well as your masterfully stated obvious rules  for  Club race have actually no direct link to solo performance except in a course that looks like a road race course wide fast, no slaloms ,no tight corners . Other than that Your attempt at comparison is just stupidy based on  emotion or ignorance or both.

 My previous examples of more weight and less down force in formula one also support  a road course scenerio , The weight bias applied to road race vehicle  has no bearing on what the weight to equalize a vehicle used in a hill climb or in a autocross should be , The weights in road race are determined by what is supposed to be considered a minimum weight that can produce a safe vehicle with any construction allowed,and thus force a desire for adequite construction. As previously stated and shown due to the round and round venues of Club racing  weight is not as deterministic  as it is in short ,tight ,single shot events like solo. So comparsion to solo for any reason other than ignorance or  stupid pet tricks  really has no link to solo. Again engineering fact not emotion or BS.

 There has been a significant issue in SCCA  Club racing with the Dsr cars;  that have been constructed by individuals or have been modified ,  have had severe reliability problems in road racing ( alot have broken crashed etc:) and a move to increase weight in the name of safety has been discussed every year because of the whole issue of  cars pushed to the lower weight limit.  Without good engineering and construction  they are just plain dangerous to every one on course and do not provide sufficient protection for the driver in a crash. .   Read your fast tracks for the past 7 years this comes up alot because even in Club racing the weights are not sufficient to create a safe car in general .

 Hope this changes this year  ; after the Ferrari club  club race  verdict and award of over 40 million ; and SCCA  forces a better construction and increase in lower weight limit to ensure it is achievable for DSR cars  1100 pounds for road race seems to be about correct based on metal tubing.  .

  The whole TV speed experts, exerpt that I linked you to  stated that as well  . 

See below Swift engineering  on adding weight to their 016 cars for safety. 

 DING DONG   listen up  son  ,  Knock knock is there  gray matter between those ears on that jug. 8>) 

 You are again going emotional and trying to justify lower weight based on something that has no direct comparison to SOLO events and has no bearing on equalization in  solo. DUHHHHH

  Although both follow the same physics , there are 2 different issues that determine the outcome. As I showed in my previous post of formula one, in a road course  one can gain an over all advantage by reducing the down force on a fast track even with higher weight  , Your examples above shown all of that to be absolutly true , long formula car better high speed aero (lower down force less high speed drag)  as well as high speed stability  than the Sports racers ( their aero provides higher down force  at lower speeds thus higher drag at speed way  rates) the formula car should by design be faster at the end of  long straight courses where lap after lap the smaller higher down force car  drives ahead then   gets caught up with and passed at the end of the straight,  then catches up in the corner but just not quite all the way ( i have been to many run offs as well as did the suspension decks on the DEKON monza while a co-op at Gm in the early 70's)and have seen that repeatedly  Over the course of 15 to 30 minutes the  the big ass low down force,  poor cornering atlantics  gain on every straight away over the nimble high down force  srs. ,  Neither were intended in club racing to be compared to each other nor classed together nor meet the same  equilization  set as they are not equal any where . Weights in club race are based on safety  for an achievable structure  and terminal velocities that are possible , neither apply nor were intended to apply in solo as no one ever gets near terminal speeds.

 Solo tries to equilize them in a class with different limiting conditions for each type of vehicle with completely different characteristics  that favor smaller lighter  higher down force cars on small solo courses. Club race favors high speed aero high horsepower long wheel base  cars that is why FA and Fmazda cars  converted to CSR work so well as CSR in club racing .  So any comparison to club race weights or performance is just thrattle with no value against solo equalization numbers .

Just a  quick fact at Mid ohio a formula ford turns faster corner section times than a formula one car  ( goes through the corners at a faster speed ) does  The formula ford would probably beat the *** out a formula one car in Auto cross as well. Again supports smaller  lighter works in corners .

 Again enough of the emotion and Bull s**T , added  weight is the only equilizer for DSR cars  that is viable and works for any car in solo for BMOD with the current and previous crop of real FA cars . It is achievable, reversible with velcro and well within the platforms force vector envelope. Weight as has already been proven cannot be readily removed from any manufactured altantic except maybe with bastardized cars  but that then hurts the real atlantic to give bastard cars a weight  advantage . Not desireable for class participation or acheivable by one without complete  fabrication facilities or big wallets. Weight is cheap available every where and can be placed to a DSR's advantage  as well as be removed for next weeks club race in a DSR with no major changes in the DSR.

 Fa cars even the swift 0014 and 016 cars with a 1600 toyota come in at over 1100 (data from swift engineering )  you quoted , So they cannot even get anywhere near the 1100 weight , the 1195 weight in solo is their for the purpose of allowing a 1600 GCR legal formula ford or varient to be able to compete in BMOD at an equitible weight.  

http://www.lynxracing.com/about_specs.html  1260 pounds minimum from lynx data

http://www.swiftengineering.com/full.asp?content=6 specifically talks about increasing weight to make the car survivable  .

 talking to swift engineering directly  they indicate the 016 car comes in at 1270 +/- 10 to +15  pounds with no fuel with a normal 17 to 19 year old boy in the drivers seat (From Chris Walrod  swift engineering) (145pounds average is the quoted design number for that driver )

Since both;  current F atlantics cannot make 1100 pounds even with carbon fiber  as even stated by the primary  manufacturer , and older  fa club race competative cars cannot make much  below 1285  with the 2 liter or  any thing resembling it ; as well as with any  human male over 35 years of age driving it ( us average weight is 165 for U.S. males  35 to 45)  it is just PLAIN STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE  AS WELL AS  Idiocy  for anybody to think one can even lower Fa weights on a real  Manufactured FA from homologated manufacturers ,

 It is sort of  like a 4 year old kid wishing that the real DARTH vader would come and get rid of bullies for him. IT is based on the childs ignorance and complete non reality world they live in to think it is even possible  . ONLY raising DSR weights make sense and are achievable as well as doable from an engineering basis .

 Formula b cars  would run amod  if they exceeded any of the bmod rules such as displacement ( which certain years actually did) other wise are basically like a RALT rt 2 to rh 6 derived folded sheet metal monocoque  car ( March  was the single biggest supplier  and all were ron Tarnac inspired if not designed for March)

So you  will not take up a free offer to show that i can actually improve your DSR for solo by adding weight and do it completly with no structure change?   Sort of knew engineering works  and BS walks .

John Garcia 

This has been like trying to teach pigs to sing,

It waists my time and only annoys the pig  8>)

notstock:

  Again enough of the emotion and Bull s**T 

I completely agree with that statement.  If you'd throttle back a little it would make it alot easier to listen to you and have a discussion.

OK, let's all throttle back some, voice your opinion, and if someone disagrees with you, then they disagree.

My original post suggested or asked for an equal wings ruleset for all cars, not weight added to DSR's. My intent was to illicit some opinions to see what peoples thoughts are on the subject, not a full on war of words. I hoped that Bruce D., Greg S., or a few more of the FA guys would speak up, maybe they're not privy to this forum, I don't know. How about some of the SR guys, Evan, Tommy or Stu?? I'm leaving plenty of people out, I can't think of everyone right now.

IMHO(H for humble), If the FA's were allowed to run full width wings at the same heights in cleaner air, as the Sports Racers, or the Sports Racers had to use the same wings ruleset as the FA's, then maybe, just maybe, the (percieved) advantage for the SR's could be somewhat nullified, and run times might be closer between the two types of cars.

Nothing is for certain, I can't guarrantee that this will be the answer, and unless more of the Formula Car and Sports Racer owners speak up and voice their opinion, then we are basically wasting our time, and a few of you are getting upset over something we have no control over.    

Very well put Jesus. I agree with your point of view. I was also hoping to get more opinions from others vested in this class. Being new to BM, and really enjoying racing the new car, I am all for keeping this a viable class. I haven't yet been to the Nat's and like I have mentioned earlier, in the NT events and Divisionals that I have attended, the BM car to beat is Ron and Brad Fish's Ralt Supervee.  The (perceived) DSR performance advantage is  a relatively new topic to me.

DSR is seeing some new chassis in road racing that will at some point hopefully will filter down into our sport, The big development in my opinion is the formation of an FB class. This may have positive implications for BM in the future. There are companies like Jay Novak's making "back half" kits for Van Diemen FC's that allow the motorcycle powerplant to be easily put into the chassis. Many of the early cars are just converted FC's with stock 1000cc motorcycle power plants, though there are some very nice purpose built FB's like the Stohr and the Phoenix. Though it sounds like an open wheel version of DSR, the aero, engine, and tire rules are more restrictive.

 
Is there currently any specific ruling that would put FB cars in the BMod class?

 

Gonzo_BMod:

...The (perceived) DSR performance advantage is  a relatively new topic to me.

DSR is seeing some new chassis in road racing that will at some point hopefully will filter down into our sport...

I think most of that Perceived Advantage comes from open wheel drivers who aren't willing to prep their cars to the limit based on the value of their historic cars. I know that's what John G's been saying, but he refuses to cut up his Ralt. Instead he's built something akin to a FSAE car but hasn't unveiled it yet. I think he's going to try to get the weights lowered on F cars so he can make use of a lower minimum weight on his new built-to-the-limit car. Or, I'm just paranoid.

 So John, what does that new car weigh without ballast? When are you going to unveil it, March?

On the topic of new SR cars...it seems to me that most of the new cars are getting much wider and slightly longer. Despite any aero or suspension trickery, I can't imagine that's an advantage for Solo, but I'm willing to be show how the larger cars can have an advantage not available to the smaller cars.

Gonzo_BMod:

 
Is there currently any specific ruling that would put FB cars in the BMod class?

 

 Per the Modified section of Appendix A in the Solo Rulebook, all Formula cars and Sports Racing cars legal under the current year GCR are legal in BM unless specifically classed elsewhere. 
 

You are parnoid , Lets give you my philosphy , First local real life examples

Damon has been running both my car and another Bmod in the past 2 years. The other BMOD owner stopped Damon from running cus Damon was waxing his ass almost every event in the owners own car. Made some kind of Bs legal excuses (Maybe not BS  , because of how much material he has removed from his DSR the car may actually be unsafe now (over 120 pounds of tube removed ))

I offered a ride to Damon and he has run with me and has beat me as well, but even so  I am modifying the new car so Damon can drive it , I like equal competition and will even go out of my way to help people even if I get beat in doing so . Damon is a great driver  and with him in my car  it helps me get better  as well as gives me feed back that allows us to adjust the car in fewer individual runs than I would have to give away. He gives fantastic car feedback.  I would rather have some one who is better beat me in my own car that is extremely within the rules then have a dog t*rd beat me in a rules weaseled amod in Bmod clothing. As a result ..  

 I will not produce a vehicle and call it "a something type" car  then try to get weights reduced  to meet my build capabilities . That is just plain dishonest  and evil,   I will not rebody my car so I can take weight out ,change its class by doing so and then get a buddy on the mac to reccommend inclusion of  a car that would have been amod  into bmod either. I find people who do those sort of things are just plain dishonest slime bags .  I will not stand on my head to change the meaning of a passage in the rules so that I can justify an illegal  car  , I will not even run a car in class localy under weight without bumping the car class . IT is just plain dishonest and crappy to do so , While others may have no honor or problem with cheating , or mentaly redacting rules for their advantage  I sure do. It is the height of unsportsmanship.

My new car depending on what engine and what belly pan arrangement I  put in it ; can meet any weight from 1120 pounds to the 1285 with me driving ( not a 18 year old boy) . But it is a bastard car  , that I had to build in order to be engineering  based competative  with the amod bastard cars that are in class right now. Since I built it on FA rules (and it will meet homologation standards for class) I  will meet current FA or FS rules for the engine that is in the car when I decide to run it . I am and will not ask for any advantage  over the  Homologated FA cars , That would be  cow manure tactics and be quite doggie pooh if I did ( stronger 4 letter words apply here) . Yes I could  put a 1000 mc derived engine in it and get to 1020 pounds  by ripping out the real tranny  and going to an itty bitty fuel cell and battery , If I did you know it would be a MOTO GP class engine   as I can afford to do that . 

The point is I hoped  that even after throwing over twice the inital price of the car into developments on the ralt over the past 4 years  that I would  not have had to build a Bastard car to compete with the amod bastard cars now in bmod if I believed that any real Fa car could be converted as easily as stated  I would have bought one and converted it. Secondly  I would not have had to build it if the SEB would have added weight to dsrs ( especially legrand based or below 84 inch wheelbase) and  not continue to  bleed AA red and allow the amod legrand hord to continue in bmod  unchecked .

 I would not have spent 2 years and more time and rescources than most people have in 2  years designing and building   a new chassis, drive train  and aero package,  if The SEB had done their job . IMPO  There should be both a Mc derived engine  penality as well as a below 84 inch wheel base, indexed  penality applied to be comprehensive and fair .  For a coment and discussion on Jesus's suggestions  I would not allow the FA wings rules into SR's  as they are pretty generous in area for FA s (and if allowed in unfouled air of a SR are a further upset ) ,   but IMHO need to have their envelope on FA cars adjusted to be of any value . (wider, higher , more rear over hang as well as maybe allow full skirts for FA cars) The above could improve cornering some what , However  what simulation shows is that the dominate issues for solo in order are;  weight, then track,  then wheel base . It has been established That The largest available marque cars ( the ralt) cannot make weight then  IMPO It is beyond what  a real Fa can be done and have them still handle correctly and be converted back for club racing on the next weekend. That is why I have built a solo only bastard FA with no resale  or intrinsic value ,It can be cut up or what ever with only my time as a loss thus the same as most solo DSR cars are ,  it also can be converted to a SR car and I can sell it to Road racers as a CSR or FS car , or  remove the real tranny and sell it as a DSR  for $$ and

( They buy anything keep it in a garage for years then whine all the time cus they don't want to spend money on a new engine or a quaife diff to be competative, their answer is cut out structure and throw it away. )

 I will not cut up a Ralt  do to its intrinsic value   as well as by doing so the car is really no longer a true FA car but now a bastard as well..  I would have NO problem doing that to a legrand as  even the legrand produced cars were really nothing historic or even expensive .( a mk18 car down the road from me sold for 4 grand last year complete, another small dsr was bought 2 years ago for local events for 6k complete  )  So to compete with the bastard AMODs in Bmod clothing cars I have built one , but will meet the 1285 pounds minimum with the initial planned engine . ( I actually will be 1304 on purpose out of the box with one gallon of fuel )  It will take a year to sort out the last pieces of suspension fine tunning, weight shifting and FEA model udating to be accurate and predictive ,  

 I have a new engine planned for 2009-2010  that I am currently doing simulation and generating machine NC files for  that will be 60-80 pounds lighter than the current one and will also have smaller over all dimensions and will output about the same power with torque distributed over a much wider crank angle to minimize peak to rms torque ratios and keep everything light weight.   It will still be 1304 pounds if the rules stay the same  and I will continue to push for them  to add weight to DSR and mc derived vehicles  as TRUE FA cars really have no room for weight reduction and maintain their value .  

JG

If there  would  not be so much crying  and be emotional tantrums  like a 4 year old  the professional discussion is being given . Adults and the educated discuss things in ideas and concepts that usually exceed  a 4 year olds attention span , So just like my 4 year old  niece once I get past how birds fly she starts crying about how airplanes dont have feathers so how can they fly and falls asleep.  You have the same ability to write cogent physics based  responces  as I do. The fact that only Jesus has come back with anything that may even resemble a starting point for  a real solution is telling.

OBTW  I am only at idle,   so keep the insults comming  it  will only rev me up sooner  8>)

jg

Just so everyone is clear, my previous post was not written as an insult.  It was a statement hoping that posters would calm down.  I'm just trying to absorb the important points that are being made.

I hope to be down your way sometime between now and march to play with the car more than on my test track at home ( 2000 feet of driveway and lots of  country roads)  I am cutting up the seat area and moving the dash and wheel so Damon will fit in the car. I have a couple of new cams comming to back out some engine power as currently  the car  is splitting transmission cases on a clutch dump .

I hate cold weather so have been slow to work over the past 2 months.

Jg

Just for clarification , I did not interpret that way  just having fun , i have a pretty blunt sense of humor.

jg