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Anybody want to buy some lightly used 195/50-15 R1Rs?

They are grippy but I'm not a big fan of how they feel.  They are obviously not a silver bullet.

glagola1:

Anybody want to buy some lightly used 195/50-15 R1Rs?

They are grippy but I'm not a big fan of how they feel.  They are obviously not a silver bullet.

My experience is this:

The Toyos feel like Dirt Stockers (bias ply, soft compound, soft carcass).  They require large slip angles and a deliver on a "toss" driving style.  If you are fromthe "finesse" camp like me (and Mike and Matt) you won't like them.  But they so stick, especially in low-grip/cold/wet conditions.  Might be a good HPT tire.

When I get home later I will post a picture of a Toyo with the tread literally peeling off.  That was from a couple of runs on a 30-second course featuring both transitions and big sweepers (the latter did it) with my Civic.

Expect also to totally change your setup.  These tires will make your car push a TON.

I did a half-assed last-minute test last week and plan to do a more comprehensive test soon.  Especially if I can lay my hands on the new big size. 

--Andy

 

I heard the same thing from others as well..."Numb" was the word I heard.......

 

On a side note...Brian B. told me his were shaved to 4/32nd's and after 42 runs, they were half gone.......

Not good at all for the financially strapped............

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I live my life one cone at a time........

Whiplash_Motorsports:

On a side note...Brian B. told me his were shaved to 4/32nd's and after 42 runs, they were half gone.......

 
Yeah, I have 4 events and 50 runs on my set now, swapping fronts and rears halfway through, and they are about half worn.  I can post some pics if anyone is interested.

 I recently swapped my rear swaybar from the ST bar to a 32mm ASR bar (their "autoX" model with .188 wall thickness), and I am decently happy with the way that the car is working now.  I didn't get a clean run on Saturday at the NT, which caused me to pretty much give up on Sunday. 

 I am pretty new to ST, and tend to like to throw the car around and overdrive it, and in this respect, the Toyos seem to work.  I also think that they are starting to feel better with the lower tread.  I am going to keep on running these tires and see how long they last.  I might even try switching to a larger speedway center on my rear sway if I go with the wider R1Rs when they come out.

 

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89/189 STS/STX '89 Civic Si

Good thing I just ordered my Bridgestones then.

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2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V
Sponsored by AgileAuto.com
D.C./Philly Region - 3 STX
cardomain.com/id/piknockout

A couple of follow-up points on my comments above:

1) Reyenga was untouchable during Friday's T&T runs, on a course that was similar in content to the weekend course (only 30 seconds, though).  At that time the surface was damp.  He was very much driving with lots of slip angle and super-early inputs.  It looked awesome!  Of course, he did have quite a few cones, but he does that anyway.  I couldn't come within a second of his times on my Bridgestones.  He also did not go appreciably faster when it dried up, though everyone else did.

2) I can't tell you how many times I heard "I sure wish these tires didn't come out", even from Toyo drivers.  Wear issues, feel, etc. all were cited as dislikes.  Kinda like the new crack is good, but has major side-effects. 

 

3)  We put my MaxQData in the cars of Matt, Ian, and Mike to compare one run each.  Very interesting data.  The Toyos definitely spiked higher G's than the Bridgestones, but they did not easily facilitate directional change in transitions.  In the end, all three driver's runs tracked each other very closely as they went through the course on the track map, but from fairly different G/speed data.

 
--Andy

 

I know this is the Toyo, Bridgestone, and Kumho thread but I have to bring it up anyways.  It looked like only a couple people tried the Dunlops at the tour but on the other Dunlop thread people are raving about them.  From the other thread it sounds like they are precise and responsive with more grip then the Falken 615, plus more heat tolerant. 

 Has anybody tried this tire?  Is it completely out of the question as far as using it at a national level?
 

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Ryan K

redwhale240:

I know this is the Toyo, Bridgestone, and Kumho thread but I have to bring it up anyways.  It looked like only a couple people tried the Dunlops at the tour but on the other Dunlop thread people are raving about them.  From the other thread it sounds like they are precise and responsive with more grip then the Falken 615, plus more heat tolerant. 

 Has anybody tried this tire?  Is it completely out of the question as far as using it at a national level?
 

I think I'll try to answer my own question.  I bet it has something to do with contingency money.  But for somebody not concerned with contingency quite yet how do you guys feel about the Dunlops? 

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Ryan K

If they are the dominant tire, they'll get run whether they offer contingency or not, just like the Falkens used to.

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Brian Davis, 89 Civic Si, 158 STS

Andy Hollis:

A couple of follow-up points on my comments above:

1) Reyenga was untouchable during Friday's T&T runs, on a course that was similar in content to the weekend course (only 30 seconds, though).  At that time the surface was damp.  He was very much driving with lots of slip angle and super-early inputs.  It looked awesome!  Of course, he did have quite a few cones, but he does that anyway.  I couldn't come within a second of his times on my Bridgestones.  He also did not go appreciably faster when it dried up, though everyone else did.

2) I can't tell you how many times I heard "I sure wish these tires didn't come out", even from Toyo drivers.  Wear issues, feel, etc. all were cited as dislikes.  Kinda like the new crack is good, but has major side-effects. 

 

3)  We put my MaxQData in the cars of Matt, Ian, and Mike to compare one run each.  Very interesting data.  The Toyos definitely spiked higher G's than the Bridgestones, but they did not easily facilitate directional change in transitions.  In the end, all three driver's runs tracked each other very closely as they went through the course on the track map, but from fairly different G/speed data.

 
--Andy

 

 The Toyos make a hell of a rain tire.  I think they're fast, and I'm a little scared a well dailed-in car with 1/32nd shaved Toyos could be pretty wicked, but that said, I'd run b-stones if I were doing any more ST* races this year.  Just my opinion.
 

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Jim Reyenga
-Certified National Hack and Car-Whore Extra-ordinare

Here is a video on the RE-11 tire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcW9Vgx01lY
interesting with it's "seamless stealth pattern"

Here are some pics of my the wear on my R1Rs after 4 events and 53 runs:
I ran these as the fronts for 2 events including the Atlanta points 1:
http://www.tastybeef.com/tires/tires7.jpg
I ran these as the fronts on the first event, and NT:
http://www.tastybeef.com/tires/tires8.jpg
My passenger front on both pairs seem to have taken a lot more wear, will have to swap them around.

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89/189 STS/STX '89 Civic Si

Wow, that's quite a lot of wear from a small light car.  Interesting feedback on the new tires.  It appears that the R1R's suffer from the typical spongey Toyo sidewalls? 

 

BrianGT- Nice shot of your car in your new avatar but I kind of miss MC Hammer!

 

James

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2007 STU National Champ

I call BS on the 140 treadwear rating. Maybe these should be banned from Street Touring ;)

qcslvr30:

Wow, that's quite a lot of wear from a small light car.  Interesting feedback on the new tires.  It appears that the R1R's suffer from the typical spongey Toyo sidewalls? 

Not just spongy sidewalls, but also a soft carcass along the treadface.  I accidentally pushed down on one (unmounted) when I was picking up something from the garage floor and immediately noticed how little force it took to deform the middle of the tire.  I then did the same to a nearby unmounted RE-01R and it was nowhere near as soft in that way.  This suggests that air pressure will be critical to optimal performance.  It also explains some of the vagueness.

--Andy 

Wow, BrianGT's wear on R1Rs looks pretty harsh after 53 runs. What kind of surface and how much were they shaved?

We made ~66 test laps on a set of Hankook's Saturday at a test event on the cheese-grater Mineral Wells surface and they have almost no wear. These things are pretty hard, even brand new.

Has anyone done real data logging on the R1R or Z1 against the other known top tier ST tires: Yokohama and Bridgestone?

Gonna stick with Bridgestone this year for our STS car. We'd rather go with a known fast tire, especially one with great contingencies and unprecedented ST class support.

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Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com - www.ast-usa.com
'93 E36-LS1 (XP), '97 BMW M3 (so long STU!), '91 318is (STS)

Fair:

Wow, BrianGT's wear on R1Rs looks pretty harsh after 53 runs. What kind of surface and how much were they shaved?

You should see one of mine.  The tread is literally peeling off in thick layers.  I'll post a pic when I get them back.  While I was at Dixie, my Toyos were earning top PAX at a SASCA regional on an STS2 CRX.

 

We made ~66 test laps on a set of Hankook's Saturday at a test event on the cheese-grater Mineral Wells surface and they have almost no wear. These things are pretty hard, even brand new.

BTDT.  Those tires suck.  I lost a half-year of development trying to get them to work back in 2006.  Too much void area. 

 

Has anyone done real data logging on the R1R or Z1 against the other known top tier ST tires: Yokohama and Bridgestone?

I have.  Look upthread.  I plan to do a more comprehensive test once I get a fresh set of Stones.  In fact, you, me and Hanchey should talk MW dates...

 

Gonna stick with Bridgestone this year for our STS car. We'd rather go with a known fast tire, especially one with great contingencies and unprecedented ST class support.

A wise choice.  I'm hearing that a lot from the fast guys.

--Andy

 

Andy Hollis:

BTDT.  Those tires suck.  I lost a half-year of development trying to get them to work back in 2006.  Too much void area. 

 

Yea, I'm not gonna waste any more time with the Hankooks. They are cheap and they have a lot of sizes... but they just aren't fast. Oh well, it was more of a "placeholder" until Amy's Bridgestone tire deal came thru.

Andy Hollis:

I plan to do a more comprehensive test once I get a fresh set of Stones.  In fact, you, me and Hanchey should talk MW dates...

 

Amy and I just had a field day at MW Saturday, all by our lonesome on the course you laid out for us long ago. This was a last second deal we were invited to. Vorshlag does have a couple more dates on the MW schedule - we'll ping ya. Oh, did you know about the TMS practice this Sunday? $50 but its on the slick asphalt bus lot there, much like HPT. We'll be there, but not on Bridgestones yet. Gonna take the XP car and the E30 STS beater. I'll make sure we get data on both this time (DL1) once I fix both cars' cig lighters.

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Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com - www.ast-usa.com
'93 E36-LS1 (XP), '97 BMW M3 (so long STU!), '91 318is (STS)

Fair:

Oh well, it was more of a "placeholder" until Amy's Bridgestone tire deal came thru.

I always knew she wore the pants and earned the money in your family.  This just proves it.   

 Oh, did you know about the TMS practice this Sunday? $50 but its on the slick asphalt bus lot there, much like HPT. We'll be there, but not on Bridgestones yet.

Yeah, I heard.  But I don't have what I need yet. 

--Andy

 

In 2003, we ran the Toyo T1-S on our STX class 2.5RS at a couple west coast events, along with lots of local Oregon events.  Partly because the car owner got them at cost from his work, and partly because they had them in a 215/40-17 size that fit his lightest set of wheels.  BTW, this was back when only Hiroo had stepped up to the 225/45-17 Azenis, most were still running the shorty 215/40-16 Azenis, and dealt with the short 2nd gear issues that hamper the 2.5RS.   Anyways, we ran them back to back with the RT-215 at a couple different local test n tunes before deciding to run the tire for the Fontana Pro. 

At RT-215 typical pressure of 35-38psi, the Toyos were horrible.  After lots of running, we let the pressures continue to creep up ended up in the 46 to 48psi range all around, and quiet a bit more front negative camber.  The feel of the tire was significantly better at these much elevated pressures, and the times were competitive with the Azenis.  They also did not fall off as much in the heat, which was an issue at Pros with dual drivers.

Obviously, this doesn't contribute much to the R1R discussions, other than you might find elevated pressures and different camber settings will be needed with the much softer sidewalls.

Chris H.
 

 
 

cmt52663:

I've just asked my local distributor to inquire, and should have an update later today.  Will advise.  I am going through Discount Tire in this case.  225/45-15 R1R.

 

This helpful soul at Discount Tire is polling for an item# from Toyo for this size every few days.  He called me yesterday to say "nothing yet".  Feedback from the Dixie Tour has not entirely doused my enthusiasm for this tire - although I'm certainly more thoughtful about it.  I'm curious to see where folks go with pressures to control the flex, and the wear is not a big concern for me... 

When I consider the Bridgestones as the "bird in the hand", I wonder what the tread width difference between that 195/50-15 RE-01R will turn out to be versus the predicted 225 R1R.

I can still sit on the fence for a few more weeks (blessed NE weather) so we shall see.

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Charlie Thompson
'04 JCW Cooper [STX]
NER Cannon Fodder