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Bill,

As a member of the SAC I can offer you this advice.  Any letter written with an attitude like yours, won't get you very far.  Please think about what you write, and try not to attack anyone.  Just state your view in a very articulate way, and you may actually get what you ask for.  If all of the letters are written as attacks, no one will get what they want.  You wouldn't believe how few letters we receive.  You'd think by reading some of the forums out there that we receive thousands of letters.  I'd say that if we receive ten letters on some subjects, that would be a lot. 

 Just so you know, I sent my letter in.  I feel that it's time for a new class in SP.  I got news, if you think a SP Evo is fast.  Just wait to see what a 996 twin turbo could do for the 4wd contingent.  No one's beating one of those things point to point.  I surprised that nobody has built one yet.

Mike "Junior" Johnson

Evolution Performance Driving School

I've written my letter.  I'll post it here just to try to add some sensible points to the discussion.

DaveH:

..By my count, 33 of the 67 BSP cars registered for National events last year (Tours and Nationals) were either Evos or STi's.  This includes 9 of the 19 competitors at Nationals.  I will be adding my Evo to that mix next year, and I know of at least one other competitor in my region who plans to eventually run his '08 STi in BSP at National events...

So....sounds like the numbers are easily there, and growing, to support a stand alone AWDSP class, to me

(sorry for spinning your data, Dave...I just can't imagine there is a more pragmatic solution to this ongoing "rally car issue" than breaking them out into their own classing: S, ST, SP)

mwood:

DaveH:

..By my count, 33 of the 67 BSP cars registered for National events last year (Tours and Nationals) were either Evos or STi's.  This includes 9 of the 19 competitors at Nationals.  I will be adding my Evo to that mix next year, and I know of at least one other competitor in my region who plans to eventually run his '08 STi in BSP at National events...

So....sounds like the numbers are easily there, and growing, to support a stand alone AWDSP class, to me

 

(sorry for spinning your data, Dave...I just can't imagine there is a more pragmatic solution to this ongoing "rally car issue" than breaking them out into their own classing: S, ST, SP)

 Spin?  there were 9 AWD BSP cars at nationals. That's not enough for a standalone class.  The whole BSP class is on the bubble unless we get some participation into it. 

So moving us out of BSP may kill the BSP class.  Many of us will not want to chase the ASP monsters. So we lose participation in BSP and don't gain much in ASP.  Hmmmmm

I agree...A well written Letter goes alot further than someone who rants....Trust me when I say...I am a very different person when it comes to being articulate...Thanks Jr. for the vode of confidence...I have lost faith in most things the SCCA does namely because of 1 person...which will remain nameless here.. I find this forum a place to vent my frustration....and I was one of those STi statistics that was mentioned....TWICE..My comments:however skewed they are ..are my comments...I wasn't attacking anyone in particular....But I definitely see what gets a rise out of some people....Sorry to have ruffled some feathers..SO where is Lee since this has been announced....He must be as happy as a pig in slop...:lol:

Bill 

thunderbird:

mwood:

DaveH:

..By my count, 33 of the 67 BSP cars registered for National events last year (Tours and Nationals) were either Evos or STi's.  This includes 9 of the 19 competitors at Nationals.  I will be adding my Evo to that mix next year, and I know of at least one other competitor in my region who plans to eventually run his '08 STi in BSP at National events...

So....sounds like the numbers are easily there, and growing, to support a stand alone AWDSP class, to me

 

(sorry for spinning your data, Dave...I just can't imagine there is a more pragmatic solution to this ongoing "rally car issue" than breaking them out into their own classing: S, ST, SP)

 Spin?  there were 9 AWD BSP cars at nationals. That's not enough for a standalone class.  The whole BSP class is on the bubble unless we get some participation into it. 

So moving us out of BSP may kill the BSP class.  Many of us will not want to chase the ASP monsters. So we lose participation in BSP and don't gain much in ASP.  Hmmmmm

Nine last year...more this year...and, when prices come down just a bit more on those higher mileage Evo's and STi's, more to come....never mind what true rules stability would do to encourage more AWD SP builds..but, you're right, 9 isn't enough for a class, unless we're talking about modified or prepared

Also, please know, I don't support moving the rally cars to ASP, as I feel it is just a waste of time and energy. Moving the rally cars around until you can almost fit a square peg in a round hole is senseless. If that's the stance, just let BSP become AWDSP, de facto, and throw all the older 2WD cars (the ones that used to make it a robust class and the ones that inspired this whole thread) under the bus and get it over with...

Looking at the lists of ASP cars and BSP cars below,  its obvious that there are a bunch of cars that never make it to Nationals:  It seems there could be a tweener class.  But there is serious risk here,  if the new class fails to get enough participation. 

Obviously the BMW Z3 doesn't belong in ASP.  It looks like BSP would be a better fit and I doubt it would be competitive there.  C5 nonZ06s and C6 non Z06s, Lotus Esprit 4-cyl, Porsche 944 and 968,  Mazda Rx-7 turbo and MR2 turbo don't appear to be cars that get taken to Nationals at this time and seem out of place in ASP. Group them all with Evos and STis along with solstice GXP and Saturn Redline, and hope for the best.  Leave the big horsepower rwd in ASP and the modest horsepower rwd n/a in BSP. 

 From the 2008 solo rulebook:

Street Prepared Class A
BMW
M Coupe, M Roadster, Z3 (6-cyl)
M3 (E46)
Chevrolet
Corvette (‘97-’04) (C5)
Corvette (‘05+) (C6)
Dodge
Viper
Elva
Courier
Ferrari
355
360
Dino 206, 246 (all)
F430
Ford
GT
Griffith (all)
Lotus
Elan (RWD)
Elan M100 (FWD, all)
Europa (all)
Elise, Exige, Exige S (‘05+)
Elite 2+2 & Eclat
Esprit (4-cyl all)
Esprit (V8)
7 & 7A
Mazda
Rx-7 Turbo (’93+)
Morgan
V8 all
+4 (2138cc all)
Pontiac
Solstice GXP & Saturn Sky Redline
Porsche
911 AWD Turbo
911 Club Sport (to 3.2L)
911 GT2 (‘02+)
911 GT3
911 non-turbo (3.6L air-cooled)
911 Turbo & 930 (to 3.3L)
911 Turbo & Turbo S (3.6L aircooled)
914/6 (all)
924 Turbo
944 (16V)
944 Turbo
968
Carerra 2
Carerra 4
Toyota
MR-2 Turbo (’91+)
TVR

4-cyl & 6-cyl. (all)
V8 (all)
+ Sports cars over 2.0L not otherwise
classified. (See Section 15.1.C for
update/backdate limitations.)

Street Prepared Class B
BMW
M3 (E36), M3 Lightweight
M-Technic
Z8
Bricklin
Chevrolet
Corvette (‘53-’54)
Corvette (‘55-’57)
Corvette (‘58-’62)
Corvette (‘63-’67)
Corvette (‘68-’82)
Corvette (‘84-’96)
Corvette ZR-1 (all)
Chrysler
Crossfire & SRT-6
Datsun/Nissan
240Z & 260Z & 280Z
280ZX non-turbo
280ZX turbo (’79-’83)
300ZX turbo (’84-’89)
300ZX turbo (’90+)
350Z
DeLorean
DeTomaso
Mangusta (all)
Pantera (all)
Dodge
Stealth Turbo
Ferrari
250 except 250LM
275
308 Coupe & Spyder
330
365 Daytona GTB & GTC
Honda
S2000

thunderbird:

Leave the big horsepower rwd in ASP and the modest horsepower rwd n/a in BSP. 

 

So um, where do you put the "big horsepower" AWD (rally) cars? 

Does this line cover both the previous generation M Coupe and the new M coupe based off the Z4? Or is the Z4 M Coupe not specifically classed in SP?

M Coupe, M Roadster, Z3 (6-cyl)

I can't see splitting out the Z06 vs non-Z06 vettes.  However, there are some cars in ASP that don't belong there.  Solstice/Sky, E46, 944, 968, 914, (924?), and possibly the MR2 turbo.  Maybe it's getting to be time to send the C4 and E36 down to ESP?  How long until someone builds a WRX or Shelby and demolishes that class?

Of course all that is just raw speculation at this point.  We have to consider what's on the table right now.  Half of BSP is rally cars.  Are there enough old school BSP cars sitting in garages around the country to fill in the gap if they bump the Evo/STi?  My guess is no, and you won't see people building cars for a class that's not making numbers.
 

bren:

thunderbird:

Leave the big horsepower rwd in ASP and the modest horsepower rwd n/a in BSP. 

 

So um, where do you put the "big horsepower" AWD (rally) cars? 

EVOlutionary:

0-60 in 3.3. Quarter mile in sub-12s range.

EVOlutionary

Damn right! 

0-60: 3.3   1/4 Mi: 11/6 @ 121   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDoJdQXmwu8&feature=related
 

Well after this weekends tour event in Cecil Ga....

BSP was represented by a C4 Vette leading the charge....and a VERY well setup Evo in 2nd....Problem is ...The Vette had him by 2.5 sec when it was said and done..

Congrats to the MarineSource.com Sponsored C4 Vette for the Win..:)...OBTW....the combined time would have put the Vette in 2nd in ASP...;)

 Bill
.

Scooby South:

Well after this weekends tour event in Cecil Ga....

BSP was represented by a C4 Vette leading the charge....and a VERY well setup Evo in 2nd....Problem is ...The Vette had him by 2.5 sec when it was said and done..

Congrats to the MarineSource.com Sponsored C4 Vette for the Win..:)...OBTW....the combined time would have put the Vette in 2nd in ASP...;)

 Bill
.

Too bad that "VERY well setup Evo in 2nd" got beat by FS on raw time.  Ouch!

pknowles:

Scooby South:

Well after this weekends tour event in Cecil Ga....

BSP was represented by a C4 Vette leading the charge....and a VERY well setup Evo in 2nd....Problem is ...The Vette had him by 2.5 sec when it was said and done..

Congrats to the MarineSource.com Sponsored C4 Vette for the Win..:)...OBTW....the combined time would have put the Vette in 2nd in ASP...;)

 Bill
.

Too bad that "VERY well setup Evo in 2nd" got beat by FS on raw time.  Ouch!

 Hey take it easy.  We left your class 2 years ago!

winchester:

pknowles:

Scooby South:

Well after this weekends tour event in Cecil Ga....

BSP was represented by a C4 Vette leading the charge....and a VERY well setup Evo in 2nd....Problem is ...The Vette had him by 2.5 sec when it was said and done..

Congrats to the MarineSource.com Sponsored C4 Vette for the Win..:)...OBTW....the combined time would have put the Vette in 2nd in ASP...;)

 Bill
.

Too bad that "VERY well setup Evo in 2nd" got beat by FS on raw time.  Ouch!

 Hey take it easy.  We left your class 2 years ago!

no need to mention that FS was won by Sam Strano.  Was Sam driving the Shelby or just a plain jane GT mustang this time?  That very well set up Evo would have placed fourth in AS  (said with tongue-in-cheek,  not knowing anything about run order or weather conditions...)

thunderbird:

no need to mention that FS was won by Sam Strano.  Was Sam driving the Shelby or just a plain jane GT mustang this time?  That very well set up Evo would have placed fourth in AS  (said with tongue-in-cheek,  not knowing anything about run order or weather conditions...)

FS = Sam in Shelby 5th heat.

BSP = 4th heat

AS = 4th heat. 

By 4th heat it was dry and warm both days and stayed that way thru 5th heat.  Not sure on exact temps for them.