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I'd like to keep this thread going. Does anyone have approximate corner weights for a top CSP car (at or below 2000#)?

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Randy Noll

rnoll98:

I'd like to keep this thread going. Does anyone have approximate corner weights for a top CSP car (at or below 2000#)?

I would like to see this keep going as well.  Here are the corner weights and build sheet for my car.  It is 2230 with half a tank of fuel.  Looks like I won't worry about ballast and just add more fuel.  I will save you the calculations, the driver is ~220 lbs   I refuse to put prices to things, because I don't want to know.  But any comments or suggestions on the build are welcome. 

*Note: it goes to the dyno on Saturday, I will post that info as well.   

'92 chassis
'99 motor
A/C Delete
Soft top Delete
Ubercharger (1.2l twinscrew whipple)
4-1 Racing beat header
2.25 Racing beat exhaust
Greddy EManage Ultimate
Innovate LC-1 Wideband 02
RX-7 460cc Injectors
Snow Performance Stage 1 boost cooler
 Set to spray 60ml/min at 5 PSI
Ubercharger front mount intercooler
Oil Cooler with Remote Filter Mount and Shroud
Ultrashield RallySport 17" seat on stock sliders
APR Racing GT-2 Aluminum wing
DIY front splitter ( under construction )
Koni Single Adjustable Shocks
Threaded coil over sleeves 750#/400# springs
NB front upper shock mounts for increased travel
SuperPro Poly offset bushings
ARP Extended wheel studs Part #: 100-7719
  1/4" spacer for wheels to clear springs with new camber setting
Flyin Miata 1" solid bar (soft setting)
  custom sway bar mounts to move the bar forward out of the way of the crank pulley
Flyin Miata Adjustable Rear Sway Bar (disconected most of the time)
Flyin Miata Rear Bulkhead Brace
Front and Rear Chassis Braces
PowerSlot Brake Rotors
Wilwood Rear Brake BIAS ajusting valve
Jegs Line-Lock roll assist
DIY Vented Hood
Cold Air Intake with cone filter
(no AFM, extends through hood vent)
DIY enlarged front air opening
Keiser 15x10 6" backspace
Hoosier A6 275/35/15
4.30 Torsen rear end swap


Alignment settings
Front
Camber -2.9/-2.9
Caster 6.3/6.2
Toe -0.17 degrees ( that should be a little more than 1/8 total toe out)
Rear
Camber -2.2/-2.2
Toe 0.06 (slightly less than a 16th toe in)
Thrust angle -0.04 

 

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Chris
51 SM2

Nice build, but a 2.25" exhaust is choking that thing.  Open it up.

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

ABS?

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Dan Pedroza
CS 72/172
2008 Nationals CS first loser

sm2dan:

ABS?

Unfortunately not this year.  

It's on the list for next year, with forged rods and double adjustables. But probably not in that order

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Chris
51 SM2

Definitely get ABS.  That's the reason I decided to get out of the class after running against the Vettes and RX7s in Fontana back in '05.  Of course, this was before the 275s came out, but the way they could shut down their cars diving into a corner vs. how my '99 did it (locking up wheels, trying to trailbrake, etc.) i saw the writing on the wall.  My next SM2 car will have some goood ABS brakes.

d 

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Dan Pedroza
CS 72/172
2008 Nationals CS first loser

sm2dan:

Definitely get ABS.  That's the reason I decided to get out of the class after running against the Vettes and RX7s in Fontana back in '05.  Of course, this was before the 275s came out, but the way they could shut down their cars diving into a corner vs. how my '99 did it (locking up wheels, trying to trailbrake, etc.) i saw the writing on the wall.  My next SM2 car will have some goood ABS brakes.

d 

 

I'll agree with what Dan said...    these cars are so fast and so intense, you don't have time to threshold brake perfectly every time.  ABS takes a lot of the risk out of it, and it simplifies one part of the very hard skill that is driving these things as fast as they can go. 

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

ABS check. Funny it hasn't been mentioned until now.  Was it just assumed?

What about traction control?

 

 

*note to self things to buy for next year if not sooner

    ABS, Bigger exhaust, forged rods, traction control, triple adjustable shocks
 

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Chris
51 SM2

It's funny how ABS is just assumed but traction control is a fairly divisive mod. If your car has neither, ABS can be more expensive to install. Is it really easier to throttle more accurately than brake with 300-500whp on tap? If I had to choose between the perfect brake application and the perfect throttle application, I think the latter would win races every time. Brake 5-feet earlier and just nail the throttle spot... that's a recipe for a jacket.

I think ABS saves tires and saves you from huge, skidding off into nowhere, blown braking zones. I, and I'm sure others, rely on it way more than we should, to the point it's probably hurting my times. I'd probably do ABS, shocks, exhaust, rods, TC in that order.

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Randy Noll

I agree with that order (ABS, shocks, exhaust, rods, TC).  They're all necessary, IMO.  I really like Racelogic's adjustable sensitivity of TC.  I haven't run any other cars with different setups, but did use it on Eric Hyman's 500hp Supra and Schuster's turbo Miata, and they were both fantastic.  Definitely recipe for a potential jacket!

d 

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Dan Pedroza
CS 72/172
2008 Nationals CS first loser

rnoll98:

It's funny how ABS is just assumed but traction control is a fairly divisive mod. If your car has neither, ABS can be more expensive to install. Is it really easier to throttle more accurately than brake with 300-500whp on tap? If I had to choose between the perfect brake application and the perfect throttle application, I think the latter would win races every time. Brake 5-feet earlier and just nail the throttle spot... that's a recipe for a jacket.

I think ABS saves tires and saves you from huge, skidding off into nowhere, blown braking zones. I, and I'm sure others, rely on it way more than we should, to the point it's probably hurting my times. I'd probably do ABS, shocks, exhaust, rods, TC in that order.

 

I drive a *slow* XP car... so I'd much rather it have ABS than TC.  TC wouldn't do me much good right now.  Seriously.  ABS has saved me many times.  I haven't driven any monster cars, so I'll leave the TC thoughts to Dan and Randy, since they've driven the crazy stuff.

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

sm2dan:

I agree with that order (ABS, shocks, exhaust, rods, TC).  They're all necessary, IMO.  I really like Racelogic's adjustable sensitivity of TC.  I haven't run any other cars with different setups, but did use it on Eric Hyman's 500hp Supra and Schuster's turbo Miata, and they were both fantastic.  Definitely recipe for a potential jacket!

d 

Isn't Stan using the Racelogic TC? I thought that after working with it for some time they usually ran with it turned off.

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Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio.

We ran the racelogic TC this year, and spent a lot of time tuning it.  Some venues, it worked great, others (notably HPT) there is so much drive wheel slippage, you have to dial it back to where it is almost not cutting in at all, or the car drives like it is constantly cutting out.  At that point, I end up carrying an XP weight penalty for it, with little benefit.  Testing and tuning is key, each surface is different., the TC has very tuneable strategies, and it is really nice to be able to tweak it on the fly. 

On ABS, a good working bias control and enough rubber to grip work pretty darn well.  As the cars get faster, it's not  just the stopping, but the ability to haul the car down without screwing up the balance for turn in, or losing too much stability.  Unlike road racing, we do not always have the ability to do all our braking in a straight line (heck, there are often no straights!), so being able brake hard then blend into trail braking is vital.

129STS:

I drive a *slow* XP car... so I'd much rather it have ABS than TC.  TC wouldn't do me much good right now.  Seriously.  ABS has saved me many times.  I haven't driven any monster cars, so I'll leave the TC thoughts to Dan and Randy, since they've driven the crazy stuff.

Traction control is actually a higher priority for my car than ABS.  Part of that is due to the fact that ABS is notoriously difficult to retrofit on a Miata.  However, we're of the opinion that TC will help  the car more than ABS at this point.  With the 275 A6's, we had very few issues braking last year.  However, we had significant issues putting power down on corner exit.  The planned geometry fixes will help, but TC is still on my must-have list for '08.

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Steve Garnjobst
#75 XP
'99 Mazda Mutant

Let's keep this going.  Here is a loaded question, sure to get things livened back up...

Who has an opinion on shocks?  Single, double, triple adjustable?  Brand? Single tube/ double tube?  Inverted?  Spring perch size?  Eyelets on both ends?  Remote reservoirs?  Body length?  Digressive or linear valving?
 

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Chris
51 SM2

ChrisSwearingen:

Let's keep this going.  Here is a loaded question, sure to get things livened back up...

Who has an opinion on shocks?  Single, double, triple adjustable?  Brand? Single tube/ double tube?  Inverted?  Spring perch size?  Eyelets on both ends?  Remote reservoirs?  Body length?  Digressive or linear valving?
 

 

I think race cars should have shocks 

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Jim Reyenga
-Certified National Hack and Car-Whore Extra-ordinare

Jreyenga:

ChrisSwearingen:

Let's keep this going.  Here is a loaded question, sure to get things livened back up...

Who has an opinion on shocks?  Single, double, triple adjustable?  Brand? Single tube/ double tube?  Inverted?  Spring perch size?  Eyelets on both ends?  Remote reservoirs?  Body length?  Digressive or linear valving?
 

 

I think race cars should have shocks 

Thank you for that well thought out response.  Let me make sure I understand the finer points, On all four corners?  or just the left side where the driver sits? 

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Chris
51 SM2

There are worse places to start reading about shocks in an autocross application than Dennis Grant's page.

Your question as posed does little to entice one who might have information useful to you, to share.  Were you to put more effort into making fun questions, you might get more fun answers.

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--Jason Rhoades

Chris, What's YOUR ideal shock setup. Give the wolves something to chew on and they'll go nuts :)

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Randy Noll

rnoll98:

Chris, What's YOUR ideal shock setup. Give the wolves something to chew on and they'll go nuts :)

 If I knew enough to propose an IDEAL setup I probably wouldn't be asking the question.

But to get the party started, Moton Club Sport double adjustables.  Only 7 setting for rebound and compression and less adjustment range than the Moton Motorsport shocks.  Of course according to Dennis Grant, you don't need adjustment anyway.  Just the right valving to begin with. 

So on a car with my setup 750# front 400# rears, natural frequency somewhere around 2.6 hz front and 2.25 rear (thats from memory so you might want to calculate your own frequency) what should the shock dyno plot look like?
 

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Chris
51 SM2