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Following several spousal discussions, I'm seeking opinions on what the best car is for each class.  Assuming equal preparation and ignoring the lemming effect and exceptional driver performances at Nationals, what car in each class provides the BEST chance for success in taking a National Championship (unfortunately at HPT, since this is where we're stuck) ?  My initial take:

SS:  GT3

AS:  GXP

BS:  RX8

CS:  Solstice

DS:  Integra R

ES:  MR2

FS:  Shelby

GS:  Mini S

HS:  Mini

Thanks in advance for your input.

Paul

 

 

DS and GS may get shook up if cars get moved. Also where is the 135i a threat?

The TT in DS did do wuite well, but the Type R I agree is the best overall car for the class.

 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

Wow, you did not just open that bench racing can of worms...

 As was shown this year, any of those cars (and several others in each class) are capable of winning nationals.  It all comes down to whether or not you've got the right nut installed behind the wheel.

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Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

AStocker:

Following several spousal discussions, I'm seeking opinions on what the best car is for each class.  Assuming equal preparation and ignoring the lemming effect and exceptional driver performances at Nationals, what car in each class provides the BEST chance for success in taking a National Championship (unfortunately at HPT, since this is where we're stuck) ?  My initial take:

SS:  GT3

AS:  GXP

BS:  RX8

CS:  Solstice

DS:  Integra R

ES:  MR2

FS:  Shelby

GS:  Mini S

HS:  Mini

Thanks in advance for your input.

Paul

 

I would add to your list:

SS: Elise if you are built like a Jockey.

AS: Cayman looked good at the Pro. New EVO has some strong numbers.

CS: MX-5 with MS-R.

FS: I know you are a f-body guy... SS and WS6 are in there for 2008.  

Wanna trade your 993 for a used RX-8?  

 

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Jason Isley
2005-2006-2007 B Stock National Champion

AS= Possible 08' Evo X RS.

Rumor-

Light as or lighter than the existing Evo 9 RS.

Larger front and rear sway bars by 1mm (Evo 9= 24mm front/ 22mm rear, X= 25f/ 23r).

Stiffer springs (Unknown rate)

Larger brakes (Evo 9= 12.6in front/ 11.8in rear, X= 13.8f/ 13.0r)

Addition of S-AWC, ASC, AYC (not confirmed the RS gets all with manual brakes).

- Super All Wheel Control, Active Stability Control, Active Yaw Control.

More hp/tq (X= 295/300).

2" wider track.

Again, this is not confirmed, but it looks better for the Evo in AS than past years if spec's are legit.

 

Dave

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#76 STU Evo

AStocker:

Following several spousal discussions, I'm seeking opinions on what the best car is for each class.  Assuming equal preparation and ignoring the lemming effect and exceptional driver performances at Nationals, what car in each class provides the BEST chance for success in taking a National Championship (unfortunately at HPT, since this is where we're stuck) ?  My initial take:

SS:  GT3

AS:  GXP

BS:  RX8

CS:  Solstice

DS:  Integra R

ES:  MR2

FS:  Shelby

GS:  Mini S

HS:  Mini

Starting from the top:

A GT3 is an awesome car.  A Z06 is still everybit as good as long as the suspension isn't all messed up.  And a good number of the ones I see are IMHO.  I'd run a Z06 in a second.  Also cheaper all the way around.  :D    Elise has never been what I consider a great SS car.  Capable on some courses on some days, but overall just too different and too low on power. 

 I was very impressed with the Z0K GXP.  And if that second gear would go to 65mph, I think you'd have a new dominate car.  Even now it's looking pretty good. 

 I honestly and truly think the 350Z can win BS.  It came damn close in '06.  And Carter made a hell of a set of runs day 2 this year in the RX8, but finished 3rd vs. 2nd last year.  I know he feels the RX8 doesn't suit his style.  I also find the 350Z to be a better fit for me.  But how can you go wrong with the torqueless wonder everyone else has? 

 CS is a toss.  Solistice.  Ryan proved the old '99's are still capable (more than once this year too).  And the new MX5 MSR is looking pretty good too.

DS.  Type R, for now.  But I wonder is something else won't possibly show up there. 

ES.  Miata won.... but I'm an MR2 guy and think it's the better car.  At least for me (torque is good), but I have always dealt with MR2's well and like them.  Plus you two Kozlak's aren't tiny DiSimo sized folks.  Power to weight in a Miata would hurt.

FS.  Clearly the Shelby doesn't suck.  10/20 will be the first time I run my GT in FS.  We'll see what happens.  Might even be a '97 1LE there to compare with as well. 

GS.  Mini is certainly fast.  But Eric Kriemelmeyer keeps turning heads with his Spec V, and I think there are other sleepers there too like an RSX Type S.....

HS.  Why?  :)

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Sam Strano
Owner--Strano Performance Parts
800-729-1831

I think HS is a free-for-all. Only two MINIs were in the trophies this year, and there was a little controversy surrounding the one that finished highest. The success of the Mazda3 last year poved this wasn't neccesarily a "spec MINI class" and a variety of cars showed up this year to challenge, many of which were suprisingly competitive.    

DS is unclear as well, mostly due to potential newcomers.  We haven't really seen yet what the new WRX can do. There's a new R32 Golf coming.  Wsa the TT there this year a new version?  If so was it a V6 quattro?   All three of those were in the "close but no cigar" category in their last iterations.  Will any of the updated versions be able to move to the top of the class?   Last, but surely not least, of the potential new-comers is the BMW 135i.   We'll have to see in what class that car falls. I wouldn't be so quick to pick the Solstice in CS.  The MS-R package MX-5 showed promise this year at Nationals with very little development time, and there's an army of Mazda loyalists out there.  Heck, the guy with the fastest Solstice seems to be a miata guy at heart...I wouldn't be surprised to see him make the switch!

 AS is still a toss-up too, now between 3 cars instead of two. 

 

I'm with you on the other 5 classes. 

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Once you go Mac, you never go back!

i think the evo x is out.  final specs are out and the gsr is 349 lbs heavier than the evo 9 and the car is slower to 60 than an evo 9 as well.  I think a-b- stock could get shook up by the 135i depending on where it ends up

also i believe an s2000 cr can get it done in as

Yeah, I was impressed to learn that the Miata that Darrin drove was not his car, and was equipped with stock shocks (I don't know if that means the stock Showa or Bilstein shocks from the standard/sport models, or the non-adjustable Konis from the MS-R package).  I would expect the car to knock off more time with some stiffer shocks.

AS seemed weird since the C4s didn't do as well as I expected them to.  Someone suggested that they're too wide for the clean line ;) but that would apply to the Solstice as well.  That must not be it. 

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John S.
S2000 #42as

conekiller2:

i think the evo x is out.  final specs are out and the gsr is 349 lbs heavier than the evo 9 and the car is slower to 60 than an evo 9 as well. 

 

But its faster around a race track.  Tight corners in particular are supposedly much better with the S-AWC, ASC, and AYC.  The big quesiton is how much tire you can put under it?  If you can match the "tire-to-weight ratio" of the old EVO it could be a contenda'.   

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Once you go Mac, you never go back!

I looked at Jeff's tires and the looked more than 1/2 worn....not sure there....and as for Scott....I was happy to be close to him :)  not sure.....I think Kumho could have/should have been on the podium in AS though.

I think if the course was favorable (not sure what course that could be) to the Porsches one of them could maybe maybe get it done, but not likely. 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

01 FS Z28:

I honestly and truly think the 350Z can win BS.  It came damn close in '06.  And Carter made a hell of a set of runs day 2 this year in the RX8, but finished 3rd vs. 2nd last year.  I know he feels the RX8 doesn't suit his style.  I also find the 350Z to be a better fit for me.  But how can you go wrong with the torqueless wonder everyone else has?

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Glenn L. Austin, Computer Wizard and Race Car Driver
2005 Ultra Yellow Nissan 350Z Track Model
2007 Packwood ProSolo "first loser" (0.081)
2007 SCCA Solo National Championships - 10th place

As far as the new WRX, it's supposed to be softer, and it went to a 15mm rear sway bar, and an OPEN rear diff, with some sort of electronic control.  It also comes with narrower tires stock (same size wheels) and doesn't seem like it will fit the 245's (speculation).  I think the '06 is the WRX to have if you're going to DS (the '07 has a few steel bits in place of AL).  I definitely think the WRX is the car to have for prosolo in DS.  I'm not that great of a driver, and took it to a win.  Put Sam in the car and it goes to 1st at Nationals IMO.  But isn't that Sam in ANY car? haha.  

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1991 Saturn SC-226k miles- HS #106
1990 Miata- Blue, with black spots- daily

MTBGAEL:

Oh, and as far as HS...  I'm going with something a little different though!  1991 Saturn SC2.  Aside from chang's civic, it should be the lightest HS car out there....and it might wind up lighter than that.  It'll get over -1 deg of camber in the front, fits 225/45/15 hoosiers up front, and should be in the high 2200s in stock trim.  Problem area is lack of parts availability...meaning shocks are going to be a bugger and a different front sway bar is questionable legality on the car anyway, due to the design.  Oh, and 12x hp at the crank doesn't hurt either!

 

On a sweeper-intensive course it might be good...if you are willing to spend the dough for some custom struts.  There's nothing remotely good off the shelf.  Can anyone confirm that it would fit 225 Hoosiers on stock-legal wheels?  I'd be worried about cleareance at a number of places, especially at the front spring perch.

 

 

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Once you go Mac, you never go back!

I've been "told" they clear.  We'll definitely be test fitting soon.  FWIW 225/45 hankooks clear....but those are no where near as big.

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1991 Saturn SC-226k miles- HS #106
1990 Miata- Blue, with black spots- daily

SS: GT3 or Corvette.  Agree with Sam that the Elise is cannon fodder on any course with significant acceleration zones.

AS: Solstice GXP or Corvette.  Solstice's turbo lag and short second gear make it a bit harder to drive even if it's better on paper than the previous king of the class, the Corvette.

BS: 968.  Why doesn't anyone believe me? 

CS: Miata MS-R.  We really haven't seen what it's capable of yet, but it's significantly smaller and lighter than the Solstice, yet has equivalent power.

DS: Integra Type R. 

ES: MR2.  While Brian's shown that the Miata can win it all, the vast majority of contests to date have turned out in the MR2's favor.

FS: Shelby Mustang, or whatever next year's Mustang of the month is.

GS: Mini Cooper S.

HS: No idea -- people haven't developed half of the potential contenders yet.

Davebs14:

Also where is the 135i a threat?

Given that it has an open diff, I'd say nowhere unless it's grossly misclassed (like in D Stock).

RX7 KLR:

AS: Cayman looked good at the Pro. New EVO has some strong numbers.

Cayman's not going to perform tremendously different from the 986 Boxster S -- it's a little stiffer and a little less powerful, but otherwise fundamentally similar.  The wild card is its optional, wider 19" wheels, for which R-compounds are now available.

No idea why anyone would campaign the new Evo, which is heavier, larger, and slower than the old one.  Fancy electronic gadgets have never helped a car go quickly around an autocross course.

conekiller2:

also i believe an s2000 cr can get it done in as

That's fine, except for the fact that it may not go into A Stock.  Even if it does, it'll be a bit like the Elise in SS: too much handling and too little torque will make it somewhat course dependent.

Silencer:

AS= Possible 08' Evo X RS.

Rumor-

Light as or lighter than the existing Evo 9 RS.

Larger front and rear sway bars by 1mm (Evo 9= 24mm front/ 22mm rear, X= 25f/ 23r).

Stiffer springs (Unknown rate)

Larger brakes (Evo 9= 12.6in front/ 11.8in rear, X= 13.8f/ 13.0r)

Addition of S-AWC, ASC, AYC (not confirmed the RS gets all with manual brakes).

- Super All Wheel Control, Active Stability Control, Active Yaw Control.

More hp/tq (X= 295/300).

2" wider track.

Again, this is not confirmed, but it looks better for the Evo in AS than past years if spec's are legit.

 

Dave

 

the newer one appears to be faster, I'm only aware of there being a GSR 5 spd and MR 6 spd sequential for US-Spec, not an RS

 http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_id=6029

 

Also present at the track was a U.S.-spec 5-speed manual Evo IX, which I took for a few hot laps for comparison. "The Evo X is a nicer car," I told Fujii, "but the Evo IX is edgier and quicker."

Fujii responded barely above a whisper: "The Evo IX just seems quicker. I'm positive that the Evo X is faster around the track. The AYC gives it that edge, and you lose nothing with the TC-SST in S-Sport, even in full auto mode."

No way. This time, I had someone clock me. First up was the Evo IX. The car took off like a bullet, and it exhibited amazing balance through the sweepers and esses. The IX clocked in at 1 minute 55.20 sec. Now it was time for the Evo X in full auto mode. The TC-SST was fantastic, shifting exactly where I would have if I were in control. Also, I realized I was doing much less steering through most of the corners because the car wasn't getting out of shape. I went through the esses without any steering correction, virtually flat-out. I crossed the finish line in 1:54.18, more than a second faster than the IX!

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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

01 FS Z28:

GS.  Mini is certainly fast.  But Eric Kriemelmeyer keeps turning heads with his Spec V, and I think there are other sleepers there too like an RSX Type S.....

I think anyone other than Eric would have trouble repeating that success.  He's better than anyone I can think of at making heavy, normally understeering cars dance well, going back to the days when his Impreza 2.5RS was in stock trim (G Stock, in fact).  The RSX is an interesting possibility -- Jason Minehart spent a couple of years campaigning one in central Florida, and probably made it as fast as any Celica or Neon ACR...but the K20 is still pretty gutless at low revs.  The MCS has a combination of low-rev torque, rotatability, and quick steering to that make it very difficult to beat -- it's a little balky to shift, but you only need to shift once.  Couple that with the LSD from '05 on, and it's little surprise that G Stock has gone from a fairly diverse class 7 years ago to a spec MCS class.

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Jamie
'01 Miata, '92 Prelude Si
Speed Demon Racing

01 FS Z28:

HS.  Why?  :)

Why not? Six different cars in the six top positions. The winner wasn't known until the last run of day two.

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Matt Murray

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today.