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marka:

I'm not sure what you can do to address this rules-wise without a lot more SM classes.  There are a lot of people out there like me as regards having an uncompetitive SM car, but we're all uncompetitive for different reasons.  Whatever set of allowances you come up with is likely to work just as poorly at making us all have a shot as the current ones do.

Very true. Hence Erik's post. It seems like dramatic changes to the rules usually just changes the group of folks who are unhappy. We are always happy to read letters with suggestions, and do take the suggestions seriously. :)

SM classes shouldn't be seen any different than other classes. As much as we try to make 1000 different cars equal, there will be a list that rise to the top. I'd argue that list hasn't even been established in SM2. When you want to build a competitive national car for any class (even stock), most folks look at what chassis are already competitive in the class, not what is currently in their garage. I believe the more modifications allowed, the wider the pool of possible top-dog cars exists, because you can fix shortcomings. I believe any gen MR2 or Miata, 914, even a 300zx can be made competitive. If you're too heavy, add more motor and tire. Too light, build a high-comp NA motor. If you think the weight/displacement rules are horribly inequitable, write us! :)

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Randy Noll

SpyderVenom:

IMHO, the things that are killing the class:  Open boost in SP (this is where locally the classes were getting people who chipped cars), it's proximity to XP (if a National competitor already has a dedicated trailered car, why not use the better weights in XP and non-DOT slicks), rules instability, and the money/time/effort to make a National level car. 

 

There's always something more to the story than just the end results, but Berry in BSP scoring a better combined time than Daddio in SM should at least open some eyes ...

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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

TeamRX8:

 

There's always something more to the story than just the end results, but Berry in BSP scoring a better combined time than Daddio in SM should at least open some eyes ...

 

different days/heats. cannot be a direct comparison.  

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Hi! I'm Rodney. "Hi Rodney!" I'm addicted to Solo....

ChrisSwearingen:

Having 17 might not save it, but having only 16 will kill it.

 Sheesh,

I know there's plenty running in the local classes.

If I had know it was this close, I would have showed up, even with my stock 134k mile drivetrain and bushings.

So, how many wound up attending?

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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd Chevy Corvette
Upgrading as stuff wears out and/or breaks
Autocross / Road / Drag in whatever class they decide to stick me in this week!
2000 CCM Group IIG Autocross Champ
Member: NCCC, NCM, SCCA, NHRA, CART

BrianCunningham:

So, how many wound up attending?

19 open and ladies. 

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Rob Leone

'07 Solstice GXP in AS
'87 Toyota Corolla in EP
ex - '91 MR2 Turbo in SM2 <- If you can't set a good example, serve as a horrible warning.

Guys, let's not get too doom and gloom.   We met numbers this year so SM2 is not on the chopping block.   However, we are expected to work on making the class grow since meeting the minimum number is not exactly a resounding success story. 

 The SMAC has taken a more "rules stability" approach this year in the understanding that competitors are tired of being jerked around, something we sympathize with.  It is too late for any rules changes for 2008, so I'd next expect any proposals to come out early next year.  My guess is that the SMAC will at least be discussing the weight scales and any fine adjustments that might be needed (note that any changes wouldn't be effective until 2009). 

 -Andy M.

Joe_914:

I like the thought of classed by how much money you spent.

Overdogs????  I can think of a couple SM2 overdogs  one is black and one is red. If there is less than 80K in either of the two cars I will eat my 914 piece by piece.

Sm  the class of cubic dollars   

XP  where SM left off.

Joe,

Andy's car can be bought for mid-$40K's right now.  So, you could make a nice profit selling off the $80k+ in parts...

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Erik Strelnieks
93 3-ROTOR RX7
01 Honda S2000
05 SLK 350 AMG
08 BMW 135i

TeamRX8:

SpyderVenom:

IMHO, the things that are killing the class:  Open boost in SP (this is where locally the classes were getting people who chipped cars), it's proximity to XP (if a National competitor already has a dedicated trailered car, why not use the better weights in XP and non-DOT slicks), rules instability, and the money/time/effort to make a National level car. 

 

There's always something more to the story than just the end results, but Berry in BSP scoring a better combined time than Daddio in SM should at least open some eyes ...

Absolutely.

It probably means that BSP Evo needs to go to ASP.

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Dan Pedroza
GS 127
WikiWiki!

ErikZ06:

Joe_914:

I like the thought of classed by how much money you spent.

Overdogs????  I can think of a couple SM2 overdogs  one is black and one is red. If there is less than 80K in either of the two cars I will eat my 914 piece by piece.

Sm  the class of cubic dollars   

XP  where SM left off.

Joe,

Andy's car can be bought for mid-$40K's right now.  So, you could make a nice profit selling off the $80k+ in parts...

 

Mid 40's?  Asking price is a mere mid-30's .    In any case Joe, you might want to start eating.  If you'll recall on another one of the SM2 lengthy threads I also laid out how I'd build an RX-7, and total was in the 30's.  Don't let the fact that SM2 cars are faster in the dry at HPT than any other car short of Mod mislead you into thinking they are uber expensive.

 -Andy M.

Rodney:

TeamRX8:

 

There's always something more to the story than just the end results, but Berry in BSP scoring a better combined time than Daddio in SM should at least open some eyes ...

 

different days/heats. cannot be a direct comparison.  

 

apparently you skipped the first part of my reply ...

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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

sm2dan:

TeamRX8:

SpyderVenom:

IMHO, the things that are killing the class:  Open boost in SP (this is where locally the classes were getting people who chipped cars), it's proximity to XP (if a National competitor already has a dedicated trailered car, why not use the better weights in XP and non-DOT slicks), rules instability, and the money/time/effort to make a National level car. 

 

There's always something more to the story than just the end results, but Berry in BSP scoring a better combined time than Daddio in SM should at least open some eyes ...

Absolutely.

It probably means that BSP Evo needs to go to ASP.

There are plenty of other evos that are in BSP that aren't doing as well.  So you're suggesting that we limit Tom to ASP regardless of what car he's driving?

How did Tom do against guys like Harold Olsen when he was in BSP a few years ago in his 'vette? I know Tom is particular about prepping his cars and was very fast in that 'vette, but I don't think he put the distance on the field like he has in the Evo.

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Brian "Big Enos" Burdette

Guys, this was a SM2 thread, not a Captain Obvious Evo's are an overdog in BSP thread. 

-Andy M.

 

 

Marshall Grice:

sm2dan:

TeamRX8:

SpyderVenom:

IMHO, the things that are killing the class:  Open boost in SP (this is where locally the classes were getting people who chipped cars), it's proximity to XP (if a National competitor already has a dedicated trailered car, why not use the better weights in XP and non-DOT slicks), rules instability, and the money/time/effort to make a National level car. 

 

There's always something more to the story than just the end results, but Berry in BSP scoring a better combined time than Daddio in SM should at least open some eyes ...

Absolutely.

It probably means that BSP Evo needs to go to ASP.

There are plenty of other evos that are in BSP that aren't doing as well.  So you're suggesting that we limit Tom to ASP regardless of what car he's driving?

How others do in an Evo is irrelevent to classing.  Classing of vehicles is based on the greatest potential of that vehicle.

d 

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Dan Pedroza
GS 127
WikiWiki!

Is anyone (non-SMAC/SEB) who ran SM2 at nationals following this thread?

I always appreciate the comments from everyone who's participated--your thoughts are always helpful--but I'm starting to wonder if the majority of SM/SM2 even reads this forum anymore. I'd be curious to know what some of the guys who haven't chimed in yet are thinking... about SM2.

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Randy Noll

boxboy:

Guys, this was a SM2 thread, not a Captain Obvious Evo's are an overdog in BSP thread. 

-Andy M.

 

Sorry Andy.  I was only attempting to support the idea that open boost in SP has likely impacted SM/SM2 participation to some degree.  I honestly don't think that impact was considered at the time it went through.

Mark

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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

TeamRX8:

boxboy:

Guys, this was a SM2 thread, not a Captain Obvious Evo's are an overdog in BSP thread. 

-Andy M.

 

Sorry Andy.  I was only attempting to support the idea that open boost in SP has likely impacted SM/SM2 participation to some degree.  I honestly don't think that impact was considered at the time it went through.

Mark

That's a really good observation and certainly has merits.  I know that Michael Wootton flirted with SM2 with his Mazdaspeed Miata but then figured BSP might be a better fit in the short run.  By the limits of even SP rules, it's conceivable to have that Miata acquire same power levels as my old SC Miata, have much better wheels/tires and much better brakes and stay in BSP instead of having to do battle against the Uber RX7s.  Wow.  Makes me wanna consider BSP!

d 

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Dan Pedroza
GS 127
WikiWiki!

rnoll98:

Is anyone (non-SMAC/SEB) who ran SM2 at nationals following this thread?

I always appreciate the comments from everyone who's participated--your thoughts are always helpful--but I'm starting to wonder if the majority of SM/SM2 even reads this forum anymore. I'd be curious to know what some of the guys who haven't chimed in yet are thinking... about SM2.

 Following it, heck I started it.

 
I am glad to see the class stick around another year.  Motor plans are already in progress for more power next year.  I will continue to lobby for lighter competition weights for small displacement vehicles.  Or some more equitable ballasting adjustments at the least.  Adding weight in the trunk of a Miata is not a favorable solution. 

I knew the rules when I got in so I can live with them, but if you want more guys to come play, I think the forced induction Miata community would be interested.  But that interest would be higher if they could shed some weight.  The 275 hoosiers give us some opportunities, but we still need a bit more to be competitive.  I wouldn't mind tailoring the class to make Miata's the overdog, but my intent is to give them more equity and make them competitive.  Either that or make all rotaries weigh <dr evil voice> 1 million pounds </dr evil voice>

The rules as they are won't keep me away, but they may be keeping some others.  Just my $.02
 

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Chris
51 SM2

TeamRX8:

Sorry

In other news, I think this is the first time in recorded history that Mark apologized for something he said on the internet. 

Ya just bump all the AWDs to ASP and make a FWD SM class and we'll be all set ;) 

sm2dan:

TeamRX8:

SpyderVenom:

IMHO, the things that are killing the class:  Open boost in SP (this is where locally the classes were getting people who chipped cars), it's proximity to XP (if a National competitor already has a dedicated trailered car, why not use the better weights in XP and non-DOT slicks), rules instability, and the money/time/effort to make a National level car. 

 

There's always something more to the story than just the end results, but Berry in BSP scoring a better combined time than Daddio in SM should at least open some eyes ...

Absolutely.

It probably means that BSP Evo needs to go to ASP.

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car