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I have personally seen and talked to many people at local events or just firends with 350Zs and S2000s that have ST type mods and want to run in an ST class. Now I know what I am going to tell them next time I meet one of these people. I encourage all of you to do the same. Tell them to write into seb@scca.com with your request to have these cars included in STU.

About the issue of exotics and Corvettes & Porsches in ST I think ST should have an inclusion list instead of an exclusion list. I beleive the inclusion list would be less work than the exclusion list. I'm sure some cars would be missed. So there should be a formal request process to get the STAC to class or reject a car.

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Paul
'90 Mazda Miata - 181 STS2
'99 Honda Prelude - 81 STS (retired)

Just something I thought I would throw into the mix real quickly.  All the ST classes seem to be very close in competition.  You'd think that STU would dominate, but most times STS is faster.  I think the only ST class that seems off the pace still is STS2, but it's getting closer everday.

 I personally think it would be interesting to see all of them combined.  And I bet the results would suprise you.

Also, I think the S2K would have a hard time even in STX let alone STU.
 

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Jeremy Foley
2001 Subaru 2.5RS Retired G-Stock Autocross Beast
2003 Evo 8 Modded Daily Driver
2004 RX-8 Current Borrowed B-Stock Killer

President
Team if you can't beat them-Join them!

I disagree on the S2k. I think in STU it would be pretty dang fast. You can tune out a lot of the oversteer with the ST mods and wheels in the back could be up to maybe 8in wide. So put a nice 255 tire on that or 265 advan etc and a few other things and you got a dang fast car. I know the AP2 s2ks here in houston are damn fast on street tires (James and Roger now both have AP2s).

 

ratt_finkel:

Just something I thought I would throw into the mix real quickly.  All the ST classes seem to be very close in competition.  You'd think that STU would dominate, but most times STS is faster.  I think the only ST class that seems off the pace still is STS2, but it's getting closer everday.

 I personally think it would be interesting to see all of them combined.  And I bet the results would suprise you.

Also, I think the S2K would have a hard time even in STX let alone STU.
 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

Why would it take a move from the national office to allow these cars in a class, or to create your own class for them on the local level? Think about how STS started... it was a local thing that started in a couple regions, and then started to spread like wildfire. Start at the bottom and then work your way up.

Regions can formulate any of their own classes. :)

 --Keith Casey
 

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For sale: 2006 Nissan Titan LE Crew Cab. White. 40K miles. $19K. Wicked pissah to tow with.

So can a local region just write into its own supps that 2 seaters are allowed in STX and STU?

I'd love to see a large region try this to see how it works out.

 

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'91 ITB Civic DX

Sure. We have a tire and pro PAX class locally that are not national classes. The regions have the right to run what ever classes they wish. Most just follow the national classes because it's easy to maintain.

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Mike Booth

94 Mazda Miata Black ES
95 Mitsu. Mirage Silver FSP

Catch 22:

So can a local region just write into its own supps that 2 seaters are allowed in STX and STU?

I'd love to see a large region try this to see how it works out.

Gonna be asking at our solo meeting next thursday. :) The way that I figure it is this... On the local level, auto-x is auto-x. Come, play, have fun. Allow these cars into STU (S2K/350Z) and the competitors will know that they're not allowed nationally... so it won't make an iota of difference whether or not the STU regulars would be affected on the national level VS these two 2 seaters when it comes to the more important games.

 And, it gets more people out to play on the local level in lightly modded S2Ks and 350Zs. Since STU is AS/BS already.... I feel they'd be a fine fit with STU.

--kC 

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For sale: 2006 Nissan Titan LE Crew Cab. White. 40K miles. $19K. Wicked pissah to tow with.

Why not create your own STX2 and STU2 classes?

STX2 uses STX rules, and allows 2 seat cars up to, say, 3600cc.

STU2 uses STU rules and allows 2 seat cars up to 7000cc.

Then the STX or STU guys don't get screwed when a really fast S2000 shows up.

 

 

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Charlie Davis
Old age and treachery...

but the STI's dont get "screwed" when they show up in stock form in AS so why even bother? In low traction, atleast on paper, Id say the EVO and STI have a few cards the S2000 doesnt.

Charlie Davis:

Why not create your own STX2 and STU2 classes?

STX2 uses STX rules, and allows 2 seat cars up to, say, 3600cc.

STU2 uses STU rules and allows 2 seat cars up to 7000cc.

Then the STX or STU guys don't get screwed when a really fast S2000 shows up.

Because we just plain old don't need more classes, especially given that STU is ALREADY fully populated with AS, BS, and BSP cars.  So why not go ahead and add the 2 seat AS, BS, and BSP cars.

Really, the whole thing makes no sense when you back up and look at it.  The current rule basically says "If you put street tires on a 2 seater they become too fast for the same cars they run against in Stock and SP classes."  Yeah... Please explain that to me.  Please.

Also no reason at all not to put the STS2 excluded Miatas and MR2s in STX.

So, in short, the reason not to just create STX2 and STU2 is "We really don't need to."

 

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'91 ITB Civic DX

Charlie Davis:

Why not create your own STX2 and STU2 classes?

STX2 uses STX rules, and allows 2 seat cars up to, say, 3600cc.

STU2 uses STU rules and allows 2 seat cars up to 7000cc.

Then the STX or STU guys don't get screwed when a really fast S2000 shows up.

 

Do you know the S2000 is faster than current STU cars?

It does not seem to be that much faster if at all in AS.  It does not seem to be faster in BSP. What makes you think it will be faster in ST trim?

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STS2 - 1990 Mazda Miata
Borrowing BS - RX-8

In my experience the S2000 loses some of it's magic on streets. AWD turbo cars have a lot to gain from ST* mods, an S2k has very little. The S2k would get SMOKED in STU, no doubt about it. It would just as assuredly dominate STX. I don't care what it's called or how many seats are permitted, but there's lots of room for a class between STX and STU.

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-Philip Maynard

No weenies!

Catch 22:

Also no reason at all not to put the STS2 excluded Miatas and MR2s in STX.

I dunno... but then again, we thought STS2 would whoop STS, and it hasn't yet...
 

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-Philip Maynard

No weenies!

Auto-X Fil:

In my experience the S2000 loses some of it's magic on streets. AWD turbo cars have a lot to gain from ST* mods, an S2k has very little. The S2k would get SMOKED in STU, no doubt about it. It would just as assuredly dominate STX. I don't care what it's called or how many seats are permitted, but there's lots of room for a class between STX and STU.

claiming the s2k would get smoked in STU is a pretty bold statement imho.  i've run STU from its inception and it's still a pretty wide open class with the STi, Evo, M3, and RX-8 vying for top spot.  it's fair to the say boost buggies will prevail, but that's not a given yet.  if the s2k can fit 255/40-17 ad07's, then it's a big part of the way to being competitive already.  how is it so radically different from the M3 and RX-8 that it would get smoked?
 

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Doug #81 STS2
1990 Mazda Miata
STU 2000 Audi S4 (retired)
STU 2005 Mazda RX-8 (retired)

The s2k is stiffer and lower. It's engine is closer to max'd out. Every allowance in STU helps the other cars more. And for some reason, it seems to become a whole different animal with r-comps, much more so than any other car I can think of. I think it would be an also-ran, even on 225s.

 

It COULD win - I'm not clairvoyant. But I'd drop a brick if one so much as trophied at Nats.

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-Philip Maynard

No weenies!

heh, i'm just skeptical of your s2k prognostication because i'm running a rx-8 in STU in the philly region and even though my driving leaves a lot to be desired i'm not getting smoked.    as before, depending on what shoes the s2k can fit (and i have no idea...) i think it could do quite well.  heck, if it's allowed down the road, i might just try one out and continue my gluttony for punishment after the rx-8. 

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Doug #81 STS2
1990 Mazda Miata
STU 2000 Audi S4 (retired)
STU 2005 Mazda RX-8 (retired)

Auto-X Fil:

In my experience the S2000 loses some of it's magic on streets. AWD turbo cars have a lot to gain from ST* mods, an S2k has very little. The S2k would get SMOKED in STU, no doubt about it. It would just as assuredly dominate STX. I don't care what it's called or how many seats are permitted, but there's lots of room for a class between STX and STU.

Phil,

You are way off base with this observation, IMO. There is a lot of improvement that can be done to the S2000 under the ST ruleset to make it MUCH faster. For example, the stock S2000 exhaust weighs close to 60lbs. You could easily drop 50lbs just right there.

I did the math on my old S2000 several years ago when I was writing my letters to the SEB to get the car classed in STU and I figured I could get the car down close to 2500lbs. There is a little HP to free up as well, especially with the AP2 cars. With good shocks, stiffer springs, 255 or bigger tires and about 240RWHP,  I think the S2000 would do quite nicely against the other STU cars. I am so confident about this that if it were allowed in STU, I would sell my Miata and build one tomorrow.

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90 Miata/89 CRX - STS2 #90/190

Auto-X Fil:

I dunno... but then again, we thought STS2 would whoop STS, and it hasn't yet...
 

Who is this "we" you are speaking of?  Got a mouse in your pocket?  ;)

 

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'91 ITB Civic DX

GChambers:

You are way off base with this observation, IMO. There is a lot of improvement that can be done to the S2000 under the ST ruleset to make it MUCH faster. For example, the stock S2000 exhaust weighs close to 60lbs. You could easily drop 50lbs just right there.

 

You could do that in stock class. 

Charlie Davis:

Why not create your own STX2 and STU2 classes?

STX2 uses STX rules, and allows 2 seat cars up to, say, 3600cc.

STU2 uses STU rules and allows 2 seat cars up to 7000cc.

We run an STX2 class in my region. It's highly unsubscribed to.

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Paul
'90 Mazda Miata - 181 STS2
'99 Honda Prelude - 81 STS (retired)