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KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

Last post 08-21-2008, 10:53 AM by Iain Mannix. 41 replies.
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  •  04-24-2007, 8:15 PM 242031

    KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    Hello

    Contemplating purchase of 15x10 Keizer aluminum centered wheels

    Weight quoted is 10.5 to 11 lbs.

    Price is approx $350 each.

    Anyone with experiences good or bad with Keizer wheels? I've read about older keizer wheels being too soft and bending under cornering stress.

    Anyone at the national level running these? What options (if at all any available) should I get when the wheels?

    Wheels are for a 2200 lbs car. Plan is to run 275 35 15 Hoosier A6s.


     


    Vinax
    1994 BMW 325i FP AutoX car
    http://myfastbmw.com
  •  04-25-2007, 11:42 AM 242125 in reply to 242031

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    I've been using Keizer wheels for several years in 13x8 and 13x9 sizes.  I've heard stories about Keizer wheels that creak and flex under load and wouldn't hold air, but I've had none of those problems.  I have two sets and just sold a third set.  All of them have a doubler ring behind the rim halves which may or may not have been a change to the original design.  I can see that the doubler ring adds strength to the area of highest stress so if earlier versions didn't have it they may have had those kinds of problems.

    I think the 15" wheels use the same size center as the 13" wheels.  If so, that is a less than optimal design.  I think Kodiak and Real Racing Wheels use slightly thicker spun aluminum rim halves.
     

  •  04-25-2007, 12:33 PM 242133 in reply to 242125

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    I have 13x8.5 Keizer's for about a season and only one leaks. The pressure will drop a few psi after 3 runs so I just pump the tire back up. The benefits of Keizer using the thinner shells are the wheels are incredibly light at 7 pounds. I have never heard mine creak or make any noises but they can bend really easy if you are not careful with your tire mounting or have a really choppy auto cross pad. Good luck!

  •  04-25-2007, 4:56 PM 242181 in reply to 242031

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    gold325:

    Hello

    Contemplating purchase of 15x10 Keizer aluminum centered wheels

    Weight quoted is 10.5 to 11 lbs.

    Price is approx $350 each.

    Anyone with experiences good or bad with Keizer wheels? I've read about older keizer wheels being too soft and bending under cornering stress.

    Anyone at the national level running these? What options (if at all any available) should I get when the wheels?

    Wheels are for a 2200 lbs car. Plan is to run 275 35 15 Hoosier A6s.

    I ran 13 X 9s before on my Miata.  Will never purchase again.  They leaked when they came, after I returned and received them, still leaked, had to fix myself.  Rims were too soft to keep from bending...creaked all the time.  Yes light, but too light and I don't think strong enough and will opt for a heavier and stronger wheel.


    Charles Cox
    charles@coastalbay.com
    www.miata-power.com
  •  04-26-2007, 9:30 AM 242266 in reply to 242031

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    I don't think I would use them on a car that heavy. 

    I used them on my FSP Scirocco (roughly 1800 lbs) and had the creaking and leaks that others have mentioned.  They are very light and care must be taken when handling them and mounting tires on them.  I know others that had severe bending issues with the rim halves but from what I understand, that was related to a heat-treating issue that was later resolved.  Evidently they had a bad run.

    The creaking never went away on mine but I got them to seal by putting a layer of urethane around the wheel where the halves meet.  If you do that, you will never have another leak and you will have a really hard time taking them back apart if you ever need to.

     All that said, I ran on them for about 10 years and never had one crack or fail.


    Mark Pilson
    owner of STS2 Honduh
    co-driver of HS Subaru (race tires rule)
  •  04-26-2007, 9:44 AM 242269 in reply to 242266

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    jmp33:

    All that said, I ran on them for about 10 years and never had one crack or fail.

     What brand was the wheel I borrowed from you that cracked on my watch?

  •  04-26-2007, 11:45 AM 242286 in reply to 242269

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    DILYSI Dave:
    jmp33:

    All that said, I ran on them for about 10 years and never had one crack or fail.

     What brand was the wheel I borrowed from you that cracked on my watch?

    That one was a Revolution... generally considered to be a MUCH better wheel.  MIght be a reason that Revolution doesn't make a 3-piece anymore.


    Mark Pilson
    owner of STS2 Honduh
    co-driver of HS Subaru (race tires rule)
  •  04-26-2007, 4:55 PM 242342 in reply to 242286

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    When I was heavy into radio controlled car racing, when we raced on asphalt, the hot ticket was to run plastic rims that had some flex in them.  It would give the car noticabely more grip.

    I've often wondered if the same would hold true in full-size car racing.
     


    2007 Mazda MX-5 MRS (C-stock)
  •  04-26-2007, 11:30 PM 242384 in reply to 242342

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    mitchman:
    When I was heavy into radio controlled car racing, when we raced on asphalt, the hot ticket was to run plastic rims that had some flex in them.  It would give the car noticabely more grip.

    I've often wondered if the same would hold true in full-size car racing.

     

    hmmm.....don't think I'll be trying plastic wheels on the XP car any time soon. Stick out tongue


    Steve Garnjobst
    #75 XP
    '99 Mazda Mutant
  •  04-27-2007, 5:44 PM 242492 in reply to 242286

    • Storm is not online. Last active: 01/08/2009, 4:35 PM Storm
    • Top 200 Contributor
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    • Joined on 12-16-2001
    • Willoughby, Ohio, USA
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    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    Whattaya mean Revolutions crack? :D These were 16x9...

    All 4 wheels cracked (well, except the one that broke off) at every spoke around the edge of the mounting pad. Too much machining and no radius on the edges.


    Jay Storm
    96 Impreza L FSP
    98 98 Impreza 2.5RS- co-driver DSP
    Wives are like SCCA rules...
    If she doesn't say you can...you can't
  •  04-27-2007, 6:18 PM 242494 in reply to 242492

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    Storm:

    Whattaya mean Revolutions crack? :D These were 16x9...

    All 4 wheels cracked (well, except the one that broke off) at every spoke around the edge of the mounting pad. Too much machining and no radius on the edges.

     Marks wheels that I cracked did so not in the center, but the rim.  They cracked around the holes that bolt the three pieces together.

  •  04-29-2007, 5:36 PM 242611 in reply to 242494

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    DILYSI Dave:
    Storm:

    Whattaya mean Revolutions crack? :D These were 16x9...

    All 4 wheels cracked (well, except the one that broke off) at every spoke around the edge of the mounting pad. Too much machining and no radius on the edges.

     Marks wheels that I cracked did so not in the center, but the rim.  They cracked around the holes that bolt the three pieces together.

    My Revolutions were very old and did not have the reinforcing ring that the Keizers have on the rim, around the bolts.  The rim itself was thicker on the Revolutions but the ring that the Keizers use is a better design, IMO.  I still think that wheel was probably on it's way out and you just happened to be the lucky driver. 

    FYI, contrary to my protests, Dave went ahead and bought another wheel half to repair mine.  Yes


    Mark Pilson
    owner of STS2 Honduh
    co-driver of HS Subaru (race tires rule)
  •  04-29-2007, 10:37 PM 242632 in reply to 242611

    • Storm is not online. Last active: 01/08/2009, 4:35 PM Storm
    • Top 200 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 12-16-2001
    • Willoughby, Ohio, USA
    • Posts 331
    • Points 4,410

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    Yes, age was definately an issue. I sent them a picture of the failed center and got a reply that they didn't have any spares for wheels out of production 15yrs..... whodathunkit?

     I've been eyballing some 13x9 Keizers in my boltpattern, but my car is no svelte FWD econobox. I weigh in right around 2460-2500lbs. Should I even bother? Or stick with something a little more robust?


    Jay Storm
    96 Impreza L FSP
    98 98 Impreza 2.5RS- co-driver DSP
    Wives are like SCCA rules...
    If she doesn't say you can...you can't
  •  04-29-2007, 11:44 PM 242646 in reply to 242632

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    Storm:
     I've been eyballing some 13x9 Keizers in my boltpattern, but my car is no svelte FWD econobox. I weigh in right around 2460-2500lbs. Should I even bother? Or stick with something a little more robust?

    Some Real Racing wheels might be a safer choice for a larger car.  A bit beefier, and about the same price.  And they're even built in the same state as the Keizers!


    Steve Garnjobst
    #75 XP
    '99 Mazda Mutant
  •  04-30-2007, 3:23 PM 242753 in reply to 242031

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    What are the chances I reply to this post with good comments and the next autocross a few days later and my front left Keizer wheel cracked :-( After finishing my 5th run of the morning on a minute 20 second course with lots of high speed slaloms coming into the finish the steering had a mushy dead feeling. I pull into the pit area and check everything over nothing leaking or hanging off the car. I turn around talk to the person pitted next to me and after a several minute conversation he tells me that my tire is flat. I look over and the car is practically sitting on the rim. The tire also popped off the mounting bead. I tried to pump air into it and the tire jumps back onto the bead but I can hear a loud hissing check the back of the wheel and it is cracked in an inch long section along the 90 degree angle where the back rim half meets the two other sections. Replacement quote was $80 USD for the rim half. The wheels have a couple hundred runs on them. I still like the wheels for their extreme light weight and ability to rebuild them.

  •  05-16-2008, 1:57 PM 300691 in reply to 242031

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

     

    Hello, 

            My name is Wade Huisman.  I am the Sales & Tech Rep. with Keizer Racing Wheels.  Just would like to add a few comments to this post made in the past years.

     

            Keizer Wheels builds for 1,000 applications across the world.  It is a constant balancing act providing the lightest, which is requested, & the strongest which is also requested.  Providing customers with the lightest wheel available on the market often comes with trials when we are racing them on the weekends.  No one fields those trials better then us.    These wheels are of the lightest nature & do not take kindly to mishandling nor misrepresentation of its application.  At times the custom specs provided may not give longevity to a customers represented application. This, ultimately is to their discretion.  Unfortunetly, not every racer is a engineer & it's hard for us to think for them. 

     

            Every wheel is leak tested when they leave our facility.  If you encounter a leaky wheel, Once or even twice.  I would suggest stop putting the tire spoon or screw driver through the silicon based seal.  Or you need to maintenance the wheel.    That will most definitely solve your problem.   This is the nature of any 3pc wheel in this weight catogory.  Do not damage the seal & you won't have a problem.  Bottom line, this wheel will require care & attention at some point in time in its lifespan. This is inevidable.

     

        Keizer wheels should be inspected often.  These wheels are not meant to last forever.  They will fatigue & will give out in there racing career.  How long are your tires good for?  Just like your tires, you may need to replace certain pieces of these wheels at times.  This is the reality of going fast.  If you want a wheel that last for decades, buy something else.  If you want a wheel that provides maximum HP & handling, give us a try.  Inspection of the wheels will often indicate a problem before you end up on the sidelines.  It does not happen all @ once on the 4th lap.  If you can not use simple hand tools to tighten or loosen hardware in a wheel this may not be the piece for you.  Every wheel has a 15 bolt modular pattern that allows you to replace a component if & when it is needed. 

     

    This year we have recently set new Track records for many classes.  Below is a picture of a BMW.  15" wheel applications can easily support up to 3000lb cars, if the application is represented in full.  Again, these wheels are not meant to last forever, sometimes you may insure hurdles as with any race upgrade.  But the benefits can well overpower any doubts & trials.  You can not spend what you do on a set of race wheels & get that kind of HP result anywhere else on the car.  One pound of rotational mass is equal to 70 pounds in car weight.  On average a set of Keizer Wheels can save a racer 32-48 pounds of rotational mass.  This is a huge advantage.  

     

     

    Now, with all this said, I hope I did not scare any champions away.  These wheels work great for a lot of racers that understand what it takes.  They also last for a long time without incident for many racers.  The above statement is correct and Real Wheels and others do offer a "beefier wheel", if that is what you are looking for.  If anyone has any concerns or questions please feel free to contact us.  We are open and honest about what our wheels bring to the table.

    Below is a further explanation on the benefits of lightweight wheels and exactly why we are in business.

     

     

    Wade Husiman
    Huisman Racing Ent.
    Keizer Racing Wheels inc.
    712-737-3053
    kaw@mtcnet.net
    www.keizerwheels.com

     

     

     

    To the Engineer

    The amount of wheel mass is a critical factor when selecting a wheel to use.  The selection of a set of wheels with the minimal amount of mass possible is of the utmost importance.  Wheel selection is a central part of building any performance machine because it affects such characteristics as acceleration, deceleration “braking”, and handling of the vehicle.  In the following sections of this report you will see exactly how mass drives all these factors mentioned above. 

    Newton’s second law will be the basis for the explanation of how this mass affects acceleration.  This law states that force equals mass times acceleration, force is also proportional to mass, and there is also a rotational equivalent for mass: the moment of inertia, I, which represents an object’s resistance to being rotated. Using the three rotational variables, we can arrive at a rotational equivalent for Newton’s Second Law: Torque (T) equals moment of inertia (I) multiplied by rotational acceleration (α).  This equation can be rewritten to state that:   

    α = T/I

    From the equation above, note that the acceleration is inversely proportional to the moment of inertia.  This means that the lower the moment of inertia the higher the value of acceleration will be.  Also, because deceleration “breaking” is acceleration in the opposite direction the equation shows how stopping power is affected by this same equation.  From this equation we can see that the lower the moment of inertia the better.

    Now that we understand how critical the moment of inertia is of a wheel, let’s look at how the moment of inertia relates to mass.  Mass is a property of a physical object that quantifies the amount of matter it contains.  However, what we are interested in is the dynamic affects of mass which relates to the moment of inertia of that object.  For objects made up of many particles, the moment of inertia is the sum of all the moments of inertia for the individual particles. Real objects are indeed made up of many particles, so many which treating them individually is a daunting task.  Engineers have figured out methods to determine this inertia value.  There are three common ways in which they measure this moment of inertia.  Mathematically summing up this inertia value can be accomplished through integral calculus or by using the equations below.  Solid modeling may also be used if a three dimensional electric copy is available.  Or if the object is not too large, it is possible to measure the moment of inertia by applying a known torque and measuring the angular acceleration.  For certain very simple objects we may determine the moment of inertia by reasoning alone, based on the m*r2 moment of a single particle I = M * R2..  This is the real challenge involved in the rotational version of Newton’s Second Law, which is sorting out the correct value for the moment of inertia. 

    For our purposes, let’s assume that a wheel is 75 percent ring and 25 percent disk.  Using the two equations shown below it would be possible to find an approximant value for what a specific wheel might be.

    Mass of a wheel also affects the handling of a vehicle in the affect of unstrung weight.  Unsprung weight is any weight that is not supported by the springs on a vehicle. In such a dynamic event this mass is free to move up and down the changes in the roads surface.  Because the wheels are part of this unsprung weight we will look at how this mass affects the vehicle.   This mass is related to kinetic energy needed to keep the wheel gripping the surface.  The more energy that is needed the harder it will be for the suspension to maintain traction with the surface in question.  Below is the equation for this relationship.

    Ki=1/2*W2*Mi*Ri2

     

    K= Kinetic Energy

    W = angular speed

    Mi= mass

    Ri = radius from the axis

     

    From this relationship we see that the less the mass of the wheel, less energy is required to control it.  In this case the wheel is part of the unsprung weight and unsprung weight is the weight under the springs which moves up and down as the vehicles hides over uneven roads and leans in the corners.  For example, this is important because, the greater the unsprung mass the harder the suspension components have to work when a wheel hits an irregularity in the road.  The more mass in a tire the greater the kinetic energy is created when it hits an irregularity in the road.  Both raised sections and bumps reduce the tires ability to have full possible contact pressure when these vertical accelerations are experienced.  This is how handling is affected by the mass of a wheel, the lighter the wheel the more effective contact the tires will have with the road because it takes less energy to keep it in contact with the roads surface at all times.

    In conclusion inertial mass is a measure of an object's resistance to changing its state of motion when a force is applied. An object with small inertial mass changes its motion more readily, and an object with large inertial mass does so less readily.  Also, because mass is a function of Inertia it also affects the vehicles handling.  From this information one would want to select the lowest weight wheels possible. 

    To the Weekend Warrior

    A good rule of thumb is to use a wheel that is as light as possible without sacrificing strength and only increase the diameter if extra disc brake clearance is needed.  The universal understanding that heavier is slower works well for this situation.  There is always performance to gain when weight is lost and the part does not break.  All too often people forget this when selecting a wheel; sadly, there are people who pick their performance wheels on looks alone.  Sometimes these new wheels end up weighing many more pounds than their factory wheels.  It is an understandable mistake when one is not properly educated on this subject.  For the logic that, “what is a few more pounds my car already weights 3,000 pounds” is an easy misconception to make if there is no background in this subject.  However, a few more pounds of weight per wheel is no trivial matter for each wheel is part of the drive line of the vehicle and is also part of the vehicles unsprung weight.  Let’s now relate how this extra weight really affects the performance of the vehicle.  Imagine a bicycle wheel and the “wheel of fortune” on The Price is Right.  Which one do you think is easier to spin?  The bicycle wheel is much lighter than the other and therefore takes less work to spin it.  Think of how much faster you can get it to rotate.  Although, this might not be as exciting as “The Price is Right wheel” you should see how much harder your vehicle also has to work when you are trying to put the power to the road with a heavier wheel.  From this observation it is understandable that a heavier wheel is much harder to rotate than the lighter wheel and this weight affects many important aspects of performance in ones vehicle.

     

    Now let’s look at how this weight also affects the handling of your vehicle.  It is also important to not only accelerate your wheels, but to also keep them firmly planted on the road.  For this reason it is also important for them to be as light as possible.

    For example imagine this scenario, 

    1. Place your arms our stretched perpendicular to your body and have someone place a bowling ball in your hands.   In this case your arms represent the suspension arms and our muscles the springs.  Imagine the bowling ball as the rim and tire combination. 
    2. Now toss the bowling ball up into the air and catch it.  Feel the amount of effort that it take to counter act it s weight.  
    3. Next attempt this experiment with a tennis ball, throw it up into the air and feel how easy it is to stop.

     

    Take note of the differences between the two situations.   It was the one with less weight that was easier for you to control.  The same goes for your vehicle, a lighter wheel in all situations will be easier for the suspension to control in any situation.  The lighter wheel allows your suspension to better react to any bump of dip in the roads surface.  This allows for more contact with the road. 

                Now you know how to make a good selection when purchasing a new set of rims.  The next time you purchase a set of rims, Look for ones with a low amount of weight and do not make a selection on looks alone.  For weight will greatly affect your performance of your vehicle in all conditions, acceleration, breaking, handling, and even gas mileage. 

     

     

    Wade Husiman
    Huisman Racing Ent.
    Keizer Racing Wheels inc.
    712-737-3053
    kaw@mtcnet.net
    www.keizerwheels.com

     

     

     

  •  05-16-2008, 2:38 PM 300696 in reply to 242031

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    gold325:

    Hello

    Contemplating purchase of 15x10 Keizer aluminum centered wheels

    Weight quoted is 10.5 to 11 lbs.

    Price is approx $350 each.

    Anyone with experiences good or bad with Keizer wheels? I've read about older keizer wheels being too soft and bending under cornering stress.

    Anyone at the national level running these? What options (if at all any available) should I get when the wheels?

    Wheels are for a 2200 lbs car. Plan is to run 275 35 15 Hoosier A6s.


     

     

    I am running a set of the Magnesium centered 15x10 Keizers on my 2240#  (2450# with driver) SM2 Miata using 275/35/15 Hoosier A6s.  I have about 300 runs on the wheels.

    The first set of tires I mounted, two of the four wheels leaked.  When we pulled them off the bead of silicon sealing the wheel had indeed been damaged during mounting.  We reapplied some silicon and then wrapped the silicon bead in duct tape and haven't had a problem since.  I think my tire guy is a little more careful now also.

    One of the wheels is now creaking a little.  No problems with it, and it only does it sometimes.

    The wheels do flex.  I had to "relieve" a little material on my calipers for more clearance.  Occasionally, under really high load one of the bolts will still contact the caliper hard enough to damage the bolt.  I have replaced about 6 of the bolts for this reason.  Re-torquing the assembly bolts every couple of events is a good idea as well.

    If I had it to do again, I would probably order 10.5" width for the 275s.  I have been contemplating a second set of wheels for the car, just to make tire management easier, and called Wade about pricing for a second set.

    They probably aren't for everyone, but they are the lightest, and I don't have any reservations using them.  The 10.5 pound weight is accurate from my experience. The scale was switching between 10 and 11 depending on air currents. See picture below.

    (I also have a set of 13x8 aluminum centered Keizers that I bought 3rd or 4th hand and have had no issues with them at all) 

    NO Affiliation, other than a satisfied customer. And as always YMMV. 

     

     


    Chris
    51 SM2
  •  05-18-2008, 8:03 AM 300850 in reply to 300696

    Re: KEIZER Wheels - good or bad?

    I remember an article in GRM about light wheels.  the results were something like "if you were losing consistantly by less than a 10th then MAYBE lighter wheels MIGHT be worth the extra expense and maintenance hassle.
    Want to go faster, please send money.