SCCAForums.com

Do what I do - Victoracers or old V710s for local events, and fresh V710s for tours/pros. I'll run from now until Devens on Victos I got barely used from a road racer, and then have top-notch tires for Devens, Finger Lakes, and DC.

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-Philip Maynard

No weenies!

Gefiltefish:

The most I got out of a set on the front before cord was 52 runs. That's in a heavy (2750), FWD car with lots of wheel-spin. The "center" of the tire went first obviously.

The split between national champions last year was fairly even (18 on Hoosier's, 16 on Kumho's in Stock/SP/SM). In 2005, obviously on the different surface and weather, it was much more Kumho dominating (25 on Kumho's, 8 on Hoosier's).

I did the math and came out with a tie of 17/17 for 06 Nats for each brand.

Why is the center of your tire cording? What pressures are you running?

I have never corded a 710 since they came out and have always got over 100 competitive runs out of each set. We mostly race on asphalt though.

FM

fastmike:

I did the math and came out with a tie of 17/17 for 06 Nats for each brand.

 I might have been one off. I did it real fast.

fastmike:

Why is the center of your tire cording? What pressures are you running?

I have never corded a 710 since they came out and have always got over 100 competitive runs out of each set. We mostly race on asphalt though.

FM

I ran a pair as high as 42-44psi and as low as 28-30psi. We experimented with less pressure in the front, but the roll over was getting really bad (245/45-17's). The 44psi's (which had 7 runs at Walnut Ridge no less!) got the best wear, 52 runs on the front. They were about to cord, so they got switched to rears. 28-30psi actually got less runs. The document is at home, but I believe it was 49 when we noticed cord. It was also warmer when we ran those though and we ran them on a very gritty concrete site for 8 runs.

We had a really good control set that we used just before Nationals. Tires were professionally heat cycled by Tire Rack. They were ran at our normal 34-36psi range. All runs were at the same site/surface (Miller Park, low/medium grip asphalt, very smooth). Ambient temps ranged between the upper 70's and high 80's. We got exactly 50 runs before we got cord.

Its no secret........... 06 Si's are tire eating machines. I am predicting 35 runs before we cord Hoosiers.

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~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee

Looks like it's going to get the ST people as well. Tirerack just upped the Yoko Advan Neova AD07 by $19 in 245/40-17 to $229

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VW MKIV R32 - STX

vwawd:

Looks like it's going to get the ST people as well. Tirerack just upped the Yoko Advan Neova AD07 by $19 in 245/40-17 to $229

 

There's no denying these increases are happening to all tires, passenger or competition. A friend of mine who manages a repair shop has a TireRack account and has been tracking the trends the last few days on specific tires. For example, he said that in all he noticed GoodYear raised their prices by almost 12% on everything. Then again he pointed out that The TireRack is the second largest tire retailer in the U.S. (I don't know for sure) and frankly he smelled an increased profit margin by ALL... I'd like to know the truth, if only for "piece of mind".

Maybe "Trent" from The TireRack can shed some light on this issue for us.

Are you there? Please validate some of this for us.
 

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Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

www.autox4u.com

Wow i'm glad i ordered my tires when i did. now the price in US is almost the price i paid in Canadian and that's before the dollar exchange.

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Bridesmaid Racing
2008 SCCA Nationals DS Runner-Up
2008 Kansas City NT DS Runner-Up
2008 Milwaukee NT DS Runner-Up
2007 SCCA Nationals DS Runner-Up
2007 Milwaukee NT DS Runner-Up
2006 ASN Nationals DS Runner-Up

honda93:

vwawd:

Looks like it's going to get the ST people as well. Tirerack just upped the Yoko Advan Neova AD07 by $19 in 245/40-17 to $229

 

There's no denying these increases are happening to all tires, passenger or competition. A friend of mine who manages a repair shop has a TireRack account and has been tracking the trends the last few days on specific tires. For example, he said that in all he noticed GoodYear raised their prices by almost 12% on everything. Then again he pointed out that The TireRack is the second largest tire retailer in the U.S. (I don't know for sure) and frankly he smelled an increased profit margin by ALL... I'd like to know the truth, if only for "piece of mind".

Maybe "Trent" from The TireRack can shed some light on this issue for us.

Are you there? Please validate some of this for us.
 

I'm here, just cringing at the price increases along with the rest of you....

 

 

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Trent@TireRack.com
aka Chris Harvey

Trent@TireRack:

I'm here, just cringing at the price increases along with the rest of you....

Tire manufacturers traditionally raise prices annually to keep up with rising production costs, often in the first quarter of the year.

 

In recent years, the cost of oil has had an ever-increasing impact on the cost of tire production. Raw materials are bought on futures, so short term price fluctuations do not have the same instant effect as say fuel prices at the local gas station. But in the long run, the increasing costs of production, transportation, even the cost of borrowing capital to finance operations will effect consumer prices. Basic economics.

 

In the ultra-competitive market of tire manufacturing and sales, taking deeper profits usually proves to be a poor business decision over the long term.

 

Chris H

The more I think about it the angrier I get. When I get angry, I write. So, for your reading pleasure, I present to you my refreshingly short email to Kumho...

 

 

My name is Anthony Crea and I've been a long-time Kumho supporter because of the performance vs. longevity advantage your product offered compared to Hoo$ier.

However, the recent price increases on almost every tire on the market is the main reason I write today... More specifically, the increases I faced when ordering my set of V710's for the 2007 SCCA Solo season was appalling!

I'll be perfectly honest, Kumho stands to lose a lot of business from within the SCCA community now that you offer a product that is basically the same price as Hoo$iers, yet is a tad slower in most instances... And the fact that Hoo$ier offers tires to those who place well at National events will only alienate even more people.

See where this is going?

I am a teacher, not a businessman, but if Kumho is to retain its place amongst the SCCA Solo community, you need to absorb any raw materials/production price increases within your "bread and butter" products. Most of the general tire-buying public won't notice a dollar or two here and there given the sales volume differences.

However, you need to lower the prices on the V710 and your other R-compound tires by the end of the 2007 season, or as I said earlier, I feel you will lose your stance amongst this loyal group of consumers.

I don't know if this message will ever be read by anyone, but regardless, I thank you for your time.

Anthony Crea
NNJR-SCCA

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Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

www.autox4u.com

Anthony,

Does Hoosier offer another alternative tire that lasts longer and is cheaper?  If you want to reduce your costs, run the victoracers.  If you want to take autox competition more seriously, there is a price to pay. 

Our tires are not the huge moneymakers for these companies, so we will feel the effects of the market with more variability.  Who thinks V710s pay for the ads during baseball games...

Internationally, raw material supplies have increased in most markets.  Additionally, transportation costs are on the rise as well.  Manufactures can not eat all the costs and expect to have a great long term strategy.  Not that we will know, but I bet the tire companies are not making a higher percentage of  profit in this economy.  

Brian

 

 

 

honda93:

The more I think about it the angrier I get. When I get angry, I write. So, for your reading pleasure, I present to you my refreshingly short email to Kumho...

 

 

My name is Anthony Crea and I've been a long-time Kumho supporter because of the performance vs. longevity advantage your product offered compared to Hoo$ier.

However, the recent price increases on almost every tire on the market is the main reason I write today... More specifically, the increases I faced when ordering my set of V710's for the 2007 SCCA Solo season was appalling!

I'll be perfectly honest, Kumho stands to lose a lot of business from within the SCCA community now that you offer a product that is basically the same price as Hoo$iers, yet is a tad slower in most instances... And the fact that Hoo$ier offers tires to those who place well at National events will only alienate even more people.

See where this is going?

I am a teacher, not a businessman, but if Kumho is to retain its place amongst the SCCA Solo community, you need to absorb any raw materials/production price increases within your "bread and butter" products. Most of the general tire-buying public won't notice a dollar or two here and there given the sales volume differences.

However, you need to lower the prices on the V710 and your other R-compound tires by the end of the 2007 season, or as I said earlier, I feel you will lose your stance amongst this loyal group of consumers.

I don't know if this message will ever be read by anyone, but regardless, I thank you for your time.

Anthony Crea
NNJR-SCCA

bpriebe:

Anthony,

Does Hoosier offer another alternative tire that lasts longer and is cheaper?  If you want to reduce your costs, run the victoracers.  If you want to take autox competition more seriously, there is a price to pay. 

Our tires are not the huge moneymakers for these companies, so we will feel the effects of the market with more variability.  Who thinks V710s pay for the ads during baseball games...

Internationally, raw material supplies have increased in most markets.  Additionally, transportation costs are on the rise as well.  Manufactures can not eat all the costs and expect to have a great long term strategy.  Not that we will know, but I bet the tire companies are not making a higher percentage of  profit in this economy.  

Brian

 

Points well taken, and frankly, it was more to make me fell better than to offer a serious ultimatum, for who am I to those people?

However, I was actually alluding to the fact that I would rather switch camps because even though Hoosiers wear like ***, at least me and my co-driver could win tires by performing well at National events.

That's all. If anything it'll be interesting to see if I even get a response.  

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Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

www.autox4u.com

Some interesting articles explaining why tire costs are going up.  It isn't just race tires, it's across the board.  I work for an OEM, and every time we try to resource tires, the quotes we get just keep going up. 

Rubber supply shortage - http://www.tirereview.com/default.aspx?type=wm&module=4&id=2&state=DisplayFullText&item=7737

Kumho Tire Co. announced that its 2006 net profit fell by almost half compared to the year prior, primarily because of a stronger Korean won and higher raw material costs.  Kumho said it earned 1.09 billion won ($1.16 million) in net profit in 2006 vs. a 2005 profit of 98 billion. The company said its operating profit also dropped 52.5% from a year prior, while sales increased 2.7%.

Kumho Tire USA Inc. announced that it will raise passenger, light truck and commercial tire prices up to 7%, depending on tire model.  The price increases will take effect Feb. 1. David Hudrlik, vice president and director of sales, cited continuing price increases for raw materials and rising transportation costs as reasons for the increase. The last time Kumho raised prices was on Oct. 1.

Pirelli Tire North America announced a price increase in the U.S. by up to 6% on passenger tires and up to 9% on light truck tires. - 3/14/07

Following Goodyear’s announcement that it will increase prices on by 4 to 5 per cent on 1 April, some analysts have suggested that the rise will more than offset raw material costs. - 3/13/07

Michelin reported that raw material cost increases reached $976.3 million compared to 2005 purchases, primarily from natural rubber and oil prices through the year. Michelin officials said they expect raw material prices to stabilize this year. - 2/15/07

Yokohama Rubber Co. said its overall net sales increased 10.2% through the first nine months of its 2006 fiscal year vs. the year prior, and its worldwide tire group sales were up 11.2%.  At the same time, raw material costs and other financial factors pushed operating income down 18.3% and net income down by 29.8%. - 2-13-07

Michelin has announced its intention to raise the price of winter tyres for cars and trucks in Japan as of Apr. 2, in response to company concerns over material costs.  Michelin has stated: “Productivity improvements and cost reduction efforts alone are not enough to keep absorbing this cost increase.”  Passenger car and light commercial winter tyre prices will increase by an average of 5½ per cent, while truck and bus tyre prices will go up by 8 per cent. 2-8-07

 

There is definitely no advantage to street tires on cost.  Bitching out the tire companies is no use, but may make you feel better.

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Trey Davis
2010 MINI Cooper S, DS
ETR

Thanks for the heads up. Wish I had known that before the price hike. Looking to the future tho, I'm with 93honda and will give Hoosier another look.

 

Ryan 

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I ride 13" rims when I lean, yo.

double post

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I ride 13" rims when I lean, yo.