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Anyone notice that within the last week, Hoosier tire prices have gone up (up $15 to $300 for the 285/30/18) and the Kumho is now more expensive than that ($305 per tire, were around $270).  These prices are all via Tire Rack.  When I ran GS, the 225/45/15 A3S04 Hoosier was expensive at $146 per tire.. now they're $204 per tire.  What's going on lately?  I know that futures aren't going through the roof .  No wonder ST is getting very popular.  - AB

 

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'06 Chrysler Crossfire - #87 DS
'04 RX-8 #87 BS (retired)
'01 Celica GTS #193 STS (retired in '05)

STU RX8 tires:

Yok 265-18 $280 +shaving

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Jason Isley
2005-2006-2007-2008 B Stock National Champion

Tires are made with oil by products and we all know about oil prices.  Hard hit on the cone business also.

 

 

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Glenn Duensing GMD Enterprises www.gmdcones.com

bluethunder28:

Tires are made with oil by products and we all know about oil prices.  Hard hit on the cone business also.

 

Is the price of oil really a factor though?  Or is this just a situation of a relatively low production product and a captive audience?

Dave G. 

talon95:

bluethunder28:

Tires are made with oil by products and we all know about oil prices.  Hard hit on the cone business also.

 

Is the price of oil really a factor though?  Or is this just a situation of a relatively low production product and a captive audience?

Dave G. 

According to Hoosier, oil prices play a HUGE factor in the cost of producing tires.  This info came several years ago, even before the bigger oil price hikes of the last few years.

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

So does Korean oil cost more?  ;)

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

davebs14:

So does Korean oil cost more?  ;)

Not exactly, but would you want to deliver oil to Korea?  

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Jeremy Foley
2001 Subaru 2.5RS Retired G-Stock Autocross Beast
2003 Evo 8 Modded Daily Driver
2004 RX-8 Current Borrowed B-Stock Killer

President
Team if you can't beat them-Join them!

B1mmer:

No wonder ST is getting very popular.  - AB

About two weeks ago, the 225/50/16 V710 was $166 a tire, now it's upto $199! That makes them a whopping $7 a tire cheaper than an A6. The Kumho used to be a performance/longevity bargain compared to the Hoo$ier, but now, it's all a wash.  

What really gets me is that for years the argument was made by some against R-compounds being used in Stock as a means of controlling costs when used in relation to Street tires... But this was accepted more by people in the slower, "small tire" Stock classes like GS and HS where a $100 Azenis is much better on the wallet than a $200 Hoosier, for example. Those who ran in "big tire" Stock classes like SS and AS have always supported R-compounds because they usually were cheaper and better performing than a comparably sized street tire.

I personally would be on Street tires, even in HS, if the time gap between the two weren't significant enough to justify their price. But if this trend continues into 2008, I don't know what I'll be able to do financially given grad school, the possibility of a second child, etc.

This sucks. 

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Anthony "Mario" Crea

NNJR-SCCA

www.autox4u.com

honda93:

The Kumho used to be a performance/longevity bargain compared to the Hoo$ier, but now, it's all a wash. 

Tangential to your main point, but the Kumhos still last much longer than the Hoosiers, so even at the same price they're still a much better deal. 

PedalFaster:

the Kumhos still last much longer than the Hoosiers, so even at the same price they're still a much better deal. 

I think that all depends on your definition of "much" and a number of other variables.  I'm no tire brand cheerleader, the current A6's and 710's seem more similar to each other compared to previous years.  Do your own testing using your car, your set up, your driving style, etc.

Jeff 

 

Part of the reason the 710's last longer is because they cycle out early.  They do last longer, but performance drops off badly about 1/2 way through their life.  At least that was my experience when I ran them on my Miata.

Dave G.
 

MY 710s used to cord on my ES miata at about 65 runs. And slowed down at run 30.  

 

talon95:

Part of the reason the 710's last longer is because they cycle out early.  They do last longer, but performance drops off badly about 1/2 way through their life.  At least that was my experience when I ran them on my Miata.

Dave G.
 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

MY 710s used to cord on my ES miata at about 65 runs. And slowed down at run 30.  

 

talon95:

Part of the reason the 710's last longer is because they cycle out early.  They do last longer, but performance drops off badly about 1/2 way through their life.  At least that was my experience when I ran them on my Miata.

Dave G.
 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

The most I got out of a set on the front before cord was 52 runs. That's in a heavy (2750), FWD car with lots of wheel-spin. The "center" of the tire went first obviously.

IMO the cost increase of the Kumho's is going to lead to less sales. The split between national champions last year was fairly even (18 on Hoosier's, 16 on Kumho's in Stock/SP/SM). In 2005, obviously on the different surface and weather, it was much more Kumho dominating (25 on Kumho's, 8 on Hoosier's). I don't see how Kumho can increase the cost of their product when their performance vs. the competitor declined! Fuel prices were high in 2005 too! I know there is more to it than wins/losses obviously.

Now that the cost is within $100 a set for the Hoosiers, I am making the switch. The reason I ran Kumhos is because: A.) In 2005, they were the fastest tire. B.) They lasted longer than the Hoosier A3S05 (there was little info on the A6 early last year). C.) They were cheaper than the Hoosier. Now that the Hoosier seems to be the better tire in most situations, has improved the durability from the A3S05 and is in the same price ball-park, it is a no-brainer for me. Especially that Hoosier offers more sizes in my application.

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~Sam Karp~
1994 Mazda Miata R, ES
SCCA-Milwaukee

Gefiltefish:

The most I got out of a set on the front before cord was 52 runs. That's in a heavy (2750), FWD car with lots of wheel-spin. The "center" of the tire went first obviously.

IMO the cost increase of the Kumho's is going to lead to less sales. The split between national champions last year was fairly even (18 on Hoosier's, 16 on Kumho's in Stock/SP/SM). In 2005, obviously on the different surface and weather, it was much more Kumho dominating (25 on Kumho's, 8 on Hoosier's). I don't see how Kumho can increase the cost of their product when their performance vs. the competitor declined! Fuel prices were high in 2005 too! I know there is more to it than wins/losses obviously.

Now that the cost is within $100 a set for the Hoosiers, I am making the switch. The reason I ran Kumhos is because: A.) In 2005, they were the fastest tire. B.) They lasted longer than the Hoosier A3S05 (there was little info on the A6 early last year). C.) They were cheaper than the Hoosier. Now that the Hoosier seems to be the better tire in most situations, has improved the durability from the A3S05 and is in the same price ball-park, it is a no-brainer for me. Especially that Hoosier offers more sizes in my application.

 

The more I think about it I wonder if it is a tariff on Korean imports? Is Hoosier quietly funneling money to The Tire Rack to make the Kumho products more expensive and hence, less competitive against their own product? Who knows? I hate the conspiracy theory game...

That being said, I realize that I really only buy the R-compounds for the two National events I get to attend a year, and only then because of contingency money. It sucks because the Devens Tour is in June and the Finger Lakes ProSolo is in July... Now to keep the tires fresh and not bust past the "50 run mark" by then, I limit myself to taking only 3 or 4 runs at an event and actually stay home more than I would like because I am limited to one set a season (grad school, kid, house, etc. as I've mentioned before).

Additionally, the local lots I run (with the NNJR, Philly, and SJR) aren't that great to begin with and thus, the fabled "2-second advantage" offered by R-compounds is almost cut in half, and more of that will be erased once Koni introduces a product for the new Civic sometime this year.

I think I know where this is going if this price rape doesn't subside. 

  

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Anthony "Mario" Crea

NNJR-SCCA

www.autox4u.com

Do what I do - Victoracers or old V710s for local events, and fresh V710s for tours/pros. I'll run from now until Devens on Victos I got barely used from a road racer, and then have top-notch tires for Devens, Finger Lakes, and DC.

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-Philip Maynard

No weenies!

Gefiltefish:

The most I got out of a set on the front before cord was 52 runs. That's in a heavy (2750), FWD car with lots of wheel-spin. The "center" of the tire went first obviously.

The split between national champions last year was fairly even (18 on Hoosier's, 16 on Kumho's in Stock/SP/SM). In 2005, obviously on the different surface and weather, it was much more Kumho dominating (25 on Kumho's, 8 on Hoosier's).

I did the math and came out with a tie of 17/17 for 06 Nats for each brand.

Why is the center of your tire cording? What pressures are you running?

I have never corded a 710 since they came out and have always got over 100 competitive runs out of each set. We mostly race on asphalt though.

FM

fastmike:

I did the math and came out with a tie of 17/17 for 06 Nats for each brand.

 I might have been one off. I did it real fast.

fastmike:

Why is the center of your tire cording? What pressures are you running?

I have never corded a 710 since they came out and have always got over 100 competitive runs out of each set. We mostly race on asphalt though.

FM

I ran a pair as high as 42-44psi and as low as 28-30psi. We experimented with less pressure in the front, but the roll over was getting really bad (245/45-17's). The 44psi's (which had 7 runs at Walnut Ridge no less!) got the best wear, 52 runs on the front. They were about to cord, so they got switched to rears. 28-30psi actually got less runs. The document is at home, but I believe it was 49 when we noticed cord. It was also warmer when we ran those though and we ran them on a very gritty concrete site for 8 runs.

We had a really good control set that we used just before Nationals. Tires were professionally heat cycled by Tire Rack. They were ran at our normal 34-36psi range. All runs were at the same site/surface (Miller Park, low/medium grip asphalt, very smooth). Ambient temps ranged between the upper 70's and high 80's. We got exactly 50 runs before we got cord.

Its no secret........... 06 Si's are tire eating machines. I am predicting 35 runs before we cord Hoosiers.

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~Sam Karp~
1994 Mazda Miata R, ES
SCCA-Milwaukee

Looks like it's going to get the ST people as well. Tirerack just upped the Yoko Advan Neova AD07 by $19 in 245/40-17 to $229

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VW MKIV R32 - STX

vwawd:

Looks like it's going to get the ST people as well. Tirerack just upped the Yoko Advan Neova AD07 by $19 in 245/40-17 to $229

 

There's no denying these increases are happening to all tires, passenger or competition. A friend of mine who manages a repair shop has a TireRack account and has been tracking the trends the last few days on specific tires. For example, he said that in all he noticed GoodYear raised their prices by almost 12% on everything. Then again he pointed out that The TireRack is the second largest tire retailer in the U.S. (I don't know for sure) and frankly he smelled an increased profit margin by ALL... I'd like to know the truth, if only for "piece of mind".

Maybe "Trent" from The TireRack can shed some light on this issue for us.

Are you there? Please validate some of this for us.
 

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Anthony "Mario" Crea

NNJR-SCCA

www.autox4u.com