SCCAForums.com

SoraNezumi:

I should be doing some of the Pro/National tour events next year with my 3. The ones that are within a resonable driving distance at least. The car did pretty well this year for me considering I was still on the 22lb stock rims and R (not A) compound Hoosiers and unmodified Koni Yellows. I'll be running lighter 17's next year, a sway bar, brakes and better tires. 

I'm confident that my 3 will, at the very least, equal the performance of National level Mini's in HS, and I have high hopes for next year.  

Oh, also... Unfortunatly, after talking to the guys at Mazdaspeed, there doesnt seem to be any hope of a camber adjustment TSB for the 3...  I guess Mazda doesn't care about auto-x that much... well at least they offer contingancy!

 

The hatch is HEAVY.  Heavier than my car.  Plus if you are running an SP23, they are even heavier.  I wish you the best with your statement about equalling the performance of the National level Mini's....I too thought the same thing about my Civic.  You will have to litterally OUTDRIVE the Mini's in order to beat them, the machine alone will not hide inadequacies of driving.  Karter, Jeff, Keith, Jack, Mike are EXCELLENT drivers in cars they have driven for a long time.  Take nothing away from McKnight....his performance was stellar.  I think National's is 95% mental, and 5% mechanical.  At least, that is my opinion after what I saw.

 

-scott

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D. Scott Bourne
192HS
DATS Racing LLC
Kumho Motorsports
Ken Towery's Motorsports
Tokico USA

DATS Racing, All DATS, All the time!

The M/3 is not the easiest car to drive fast, at least not nearly as easy as the MINI.  It's got acceleration that is clearly the strong point and the handling is not that far from a MINI.  It does roll more and the weight you can feel that keeps going and is harder to change direction.  Once you get used to the total momentum that you can carry, it ultimately does come through faster.  More open courses play to the 3's strengths and courses that make you lose a lot of momentum will also play to the acceleration differential between the MINI and the 3.  A MINI might be able to be driven faster if the driver of the 3 isn't having a good day, but then that's the skill level coming through and not the car's ability.

 If the 3 shows to be dominant, and I think it will, this should prove to be good rationale to bring the 94-99' Celica's and MX-6's back to HS.  These cars although slightly faster than the MINI will just be on par with the 3 and only on occasion.

Look for a lot of the 3's showing up and taking over as next season becomes the "Winds of Change in HS".

Jim

Gefiltefish:

Heck, I was ready to trade my Si in for an LX after Nationals!

Where the heck is Crea? I thought he would be all over this thread by now!

Nah, stick with anything else in HS but the new Civic... The LX's suck. The only thing they have going for them is the cool dashboard.

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Anthony "Mario" Crea

NNJR-SCCA

www.autox4u.com

honda93:

Gefiltefish:

Heck, I was ready to trade my Si in for an LX after Nationals!

Where the heck is Crea? I thought he would be all over this thread by now!

Nah, stick with anything else in HS but the new Civic... The LX's suck. The only thing they have going for them is the cool dashboard.

Finally, a voice of reason.

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Curt Luther
L&W Enterprises / www.redshiftmotorsports.com
89 Civic Si STS/STX
07 Civic LX - HS/SK2

dmitrik4:

 david-

why the i?  i remember looking at the specs between the i and the s sedan, and the s was barely heavier, but with what looked to be quite a bit more grunt.  i don't know how the wheel options shake out now; i think the s used to have 16s standard, but i'm pretty sure now it's 17s, in the typical weird mazda width (6.5, IIRC).

the 3 might benefit from a bigger front sway (e.g., off the new MS3) if the wheel spin isn't too bad.

I could have sworn the "S" model with the 2.3L engine went to G Stock?

dmitrik4:

has anyone seen anyone running an '00-'01 Si?

 Gerry Terranova tried one here locally on V710s at least once. The fact that he was back in his '89 Si for Nationals might say something.

 

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Iain

2004 Mazda RX-8 - former B Stock autocrosser, now daily driver and HPDE car
2005 Honda CR-V EX AWD - alphabet soup family truckster

I assume it was a 99-00 Si. There was not a 01 offered. Recently only 99-00, 02-04 and 06+ Si's.

The 99-00 has horrid steering. I drove one in STS trim and SM trim and neither could handle slaloms or fast transitions well (read...a-u-t-o-c-r-o-s-s!). Plus, they have no off-VTEC power. Might as well be a 2600lb pedal car under 5500rpms. Gerry T made a good choice with sticking with a 89!

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~Sam Karp~
1994 Mazda Miata R, ES
SCCA-Milwaukee

Gefiltefish:

 Plus, they have no off-VTEC power. Might as well be a 2600lb pedal car under 5500rpms. Gerry T made a good choice with sticking with a 89!

Keep in mind, we're talking aobut HS, though   It's no slower under 5500 rpms than my Mini is

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goin' slow but havin' fun.

Thats true. After driving my 06 at an event and then hoping into a 99 to help instruct, it was painful. And its not like my 06 is a torque monster!

Atleast the MINI has torque!

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~Sam Karp~
1994 Mazda Miata R, ES
SCCA-Milwaukee

Word on the street says the new 07's aren't any heavier than the 06's and there were some suspension geometry changes to make the car handle even better.  Also the 2.3L S is noticeably faster and torquier vs the 2.0L i.  16" or 17" wheels are options on the S also making for some interesting tire choices.

Specs on the Mazda website are not apparently correct.  I have both pdf files and the 07' listing shows it to be about 115 lbs heavier than the 06' for some reason.

No matter what, the M/3's are going to set a new bar for HS and MINI's have their work cut out for them.

Now if I only had a bunch of money and time...I guess I'd bein AM

Gefiltefish:

I assume it was a 99-00 Si. There was not a 01 offered. Recently only 99-00, 02-04 and 06+ Si's.

The 99-00 has horrid steering. I drove one in STS trim and SM trim and neither could handle slaloms or fast transitions well (read...a-u-t-o-c-r-o-s-s!). Plus, they have no off-VTEC power. Might as well be a 2600lb pedal car under 5500rpms. Gerry T made a good choice with sticking with a 89!

 

no Sam, the steering is not THAT bad, you just need to drive it better.... 

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DSP #29

No Art, its T_H_A_T__B_A_D!

You know the old saying, turn around the slalom cones, not at them.......well with a 99-00 Si, you better start aiming at the 3rd slalom cone two corners before the slalom even begins! Maybe, just maybe, the steering will catch up.

We can switch cars this weekend if there is fun runs and compare! (except I won't be on R-comps).

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~Sam Karp~
1994 Mazda Miata R, ES
SCCA-Milwaukee

autoxgod:

The writings on the wall.  Mazda 3's will be taking over the top HS spots.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but you keep saying that a new HS overdog has been crowned and that everyone's going to rush to buy Mazda 3s, but I don't see anyone agreeing with you.  You might want to reevaluate your statement...

Gefiltefish:

Atleast the MINI has torque!

 I think the mini has roughly the same torque rating at the Si (110ft lbs, +/- 5).  I think the Si has a sportier final drive, though (probably ~4.4 or something?).  I think the Mini's final drive is under 4.

 

You're right about the steering, though   My old Civic was like steering a bus compared to the steering in the Mini.

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goin' slow but havin' fun.

PedalFaster:

autoxgod:

The writings on the wall.  Mazda 3's will be taking over the top HS spots.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but you keep saying that a new HS overdog has been crowned and that everyone's going to rush to buy Mazda 3s, but I don't see anyone agreeing with you.  You might want to reevaluate your statement...

 

He had a good comparison this past weekend. He drove his HS MINI (which was piloted to a top-3 at Nationals in 05) in the morning and then drove a Mazda 3 in the afternoon (same one that took 2nd at this years Nationals). He nearly matched his time in the MINI on his second run in the 3. Both were on V710's as well. And the 3 he drove is apparently not the one to have (05 3i, I guess the new ones have more power or something) and the 3 was on 205/50-15's (I guess 225's may be better). The MINI is obviously prepped to National-level rules, although I have heard it weighs a little more than a "autocross-only" prepped MINI.

Maybe it was my course though. There were a lot of steady-state corners that a camber-challenged car may have had an issue with. What do you think Jim?

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~Sam Karp~
1994 Mazda Miata R, ES
SCCA-Milwaukee

Gefiltefish:

No Art, its T_H_A_T__B_A_D!

You know the old saying, turn around the slalom cones, not at them.......well with a 99-00 Si, you better start aiming at the 3rd slalom cone two corners before the slalom even begins! Maybe, just maybe, the steering will catch up.

We can switch cars this weekend if there is fun runs and compare! (except I won't be on R-comps).

 

maybe I am use to it or something because I would like it "faster" but I can live with what I have!   

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DSP #29

Now all you guys need to win HS in the LX is a good set of SHOCKS   I wonder hs for me next year Nah that isn't the class  for me. But something will have to be done.

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Greg Gellas
Redshiftmotorsports

Gefiltefish:

PedalFaster:

autoxgod:

The writings on the wall.  Mazda 3's will be taking over the top HS spots.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but you keep saying that a new HS overdog has been crowned and that everyone's going to rush to buy Mazda 3s, but I don't see anyone agreeing with you.  You might want to reevaluate your statement...

 

I have good info on a few very talented folks who will be getting into one and more than just in my region.  There will be others not mentioned earlier and I'm keeping it quiet on who is and who will be.  The MINI guys like me are going to have to have their best game together to match times. 

 

He had a good comparison this past weekend. He drove his HS MINI (which was piloted to a top-3 at Nationals in 05) in the morning and then drove a Mazda 3 in the afternoon (same one that took 2nd at this years Nationals). He nearly matched his time in the MINI on his second run in the 3. Both were on V710's as well. And the 3 he drove is apparently not the one to have (05 3i, I guess the new ones have more power or something) and the 3 was on 205/50-15's (I guess 225's may be better). The MINI is obviously prepped to National-level rules, although I have heard it weighs a little more than a "autocross-only" prepped MINI.

Maybe it was my course though. There were a lot of steady-state corners that a camber-challenged car may have had an issue with. What do you think Jim?

 

I wouldn't have posted so much about the new dominant car if I didn't know it for sure.  MINI's aren't bad and may be able to keep it tight but there should be more opportunity for the Mazda 3's to shine than there are for the MINI's.  If you take the top drivers and put them in the Mazda, then the 3's will be on top by just enough to win.  Top MINI drivers will eventually see this coming and some already know.  But, if you aren't convinced, that's OK too.  There are other cars out there that are unproven in HS and some sleepers that haven't been on the National seen.

 

Jim

autoxgod:

The writings on the wall.  Mazda 3's will be taking over the top HS spots.

Why are you others questioning him?!  God has spoken! 

Hmm, maybe I'll have to unretire the ex-Alan Dahl Audi 90 Quattro (if I can find that elusive front sway bar)...  My experience and observations on a super-slick, sealed asphalt lot indicates AWD is the ticket.  Some sort of Subie may also do well with good prep work.

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Utah Region

Just to ask again (what may be a dumb question)...what class is the mazda 3s in? The 2.3L is the S and the 2.0L is the i.

I thought the i was the only 3 in HS.

I'd like to get another Mazda :)
 

David Hedderick 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car