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Sorry for the newb post, but per the current wording, it would appear JDM cars are allowed in SM2. I don't believe this is the intent of the rule, but I need to know what the actual intent of the rule is.

Thanks for any clarification on this.

 

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Steve Sulatycki
Kansas City Region

Well, since Stock and Street Prepared specifically mention vehicles having to have been available in the U.S. market, and SM does not have this same stipulation, I would say they would be legal.

As to whether that was the intent, I'm not sure. There is a statement later in the SM ruleset that specifically allows production engine blocks from the JDM market, but it doesn't mention the legality of JDM for other components.

IMHO, JDM is overrated, anyway. So just buy a U.S. car. (and yes, I do drive a Honda, so don't flame)

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Brandon
NWOR

psssh, whateva!  jDm 1s mAd tyTe y0! 

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Jeremy Foley
2001 Subaru 2.5RS Retired G-Stock Autocross Beast
2003 Evo 8 Modded Daily Driver
2004 RX-8 Current Borrowed B-Stock Killer

President
Team if you can't beat them-Join them!

Well, one would hardly argue that you could buy something in US that matches one of the latest Skylines no mater how hard you try... Don't flame on me though, since my car was build in Illinois and it comes with domestic name!!

Fedja

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95 AWD #34 SM or ESP
"Let boost be with you...
...and bring some timing too!"
http://www.geocities.com/esp_er

Guys - thanks, but you haven't clarified anything. The question isn't whether a JDM car is, to quote Jeremy "mAd tyTe y0!", the question is about legality. For instance, we have a local running a JDM 180SX (w/SR20DET) in SM and the question is - where does this car belong? In SM2, the wording appears to allow all the cars on the SM exclusion list (which includes all JDM cars...), so where does it belong? I'm Chief of T&S for our Region and I need to know where to class such cars for points/standings.

Hoping to hear some (serious) input on this.

Thanks.

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Steve Sulatycki
Kansas City Region

Well what about something not JDM but of another market. Ie a current TVR?

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1999 Civic Si SSC

Mrsideways wrote:

Well what about something not JDM but of another market. Ie a current TVR?

There's no rule allowing any car outside USDM, other than the SM exclusion list which includes all JDM cars, which is overwritten by the SM2 catch all inclusion of all SM exclusion list cars.

In short the answer to your question is a resounding no.

 

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Steve Sulatycki
Kansas City Region

Hmmm, what about an Old TVR (actually imported like an old griffith) with a current TVR motor. Not that it would be competetive. Just asking the question.

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1999 Civic Si SSC

Why would T&S be worried about this? The driver puts the car in a class and it is up to someone else to argue and the Protest Comm to decide who is right.

- Jtoby

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"All your boost are belong to us"

I know the issue came up a few years ago when someone asked if he could run his Evo VII.
The answer at the time was a resounding NO.
I don't know if things have progressed since then...

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Robert Puertas
www.EvoSchool.com

I'm a bit puzzled why this doesn't seem to be a clear cut issue... ?

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Steve Sulatycki
Kansas City Region

16.C.2.c Excluded Vehicles: Lotus (all), two seater cars not eligible for the Street Prepared category.

15. Cars running in Street Prepared Category must have been series produced with normal road touring equipment, capable of being licensed for normal road use in the United States, and normally sold and delivered through the manufacturer’s retail sales outlets in the United States.

16.C.2.c applies to SM2. It's pretty darned clear cut there. I'd guess it's safe to say that it was intended to apply to SM as well. Don't waste your money building a chassis that wasn't originally sold in the US. There's enough holes in the rules for class killers now. The last thing we need is a class killer that needs to be imported from overseas. If you still doubt it, write a letter. seb@scca.com

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Randy Noll

I don't see the "SM2 includes all SM Excluded cars reference" in the 2005 rulebook.
The rule is otherwise eligible, but under weight or overdisplacement.

Was this a joke, a mistake, or was there a fastrack announcement.

I see it as highly unlikely that the SEB would ever want to try to document and track every car in the world. USDM's are tough enough. Go outside of USDM and some very interesting race cars with license plates were sold. And there goes crash bumpers and braces and well, its endless.

Sure there are some nice JDM and EDM cars that make perfect sense to run. The Evo Robert referred to would make a fine addition to SM. But letting in that car opens up a huge can of worms. Unless you start including cars on a case by case.... But I never see that happening.

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Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

zzyzx wrote:

I'm a bit puzzled why this doesn't seem to be a clear cut issue... ?

I agree that it's neither clear-cut nor the intent of the rules to allow them. You sort of need to infer from the rules that they're illegal for most classes:

1. The "Explicit Allowance" rule: If it doesn't say you can, you can't. Nowhere that I could find in the rules does it say anything about JDM cars in Stock through SM cars, therefore, they are illegal.

2. The Vehicle Classification section [3.2] says that cars must be classed by the SEB. A JDM car, not classed, can't be legal. Where would it go? And by whose decision?

3. Because the SEB has not classified a JDM car, its owner cannot properly class it. Because the burden of proof that a car is properly classed rests with the competitor, the car cannot possibly be legal. How does the owner satisfy the burdon? In most part, by referring to the rule book.

4. Standard Parts Rule [12.4]: Where stock parts are specified in the rules (regardless of class), such parts fail to meet the definition of a "standard part," which includes language explicitly stating that it must be "delivered through a dealer in the United States."

5. The Limited Availability Options section [3.4] describes limitations on the use of options. If a JDM car has features unavailable to U.S. cars AND they are not legally changeable in SM, then it follows that the car is illegal. An SM-relevant example might be chassis reinforcement.

6. I couldn't find where it states that each class's ruleset essentially builds upon the prior class (classes), but if this is, in fact, the case, then it follows that a JDM car fails to meet the definition of section 13, that is, "sold through U.S. dealerships, in quantities of at least 1000 cars in a 12-month period".

That said, a serious competitor won't campaign

SteveEkstrand wrote:

I don't see the "SM2 includes all SM Excluded cars reference" in the 2005 rulebook. The rule is otherwise eligible, but under weight or overdisplacement. Was this a joke, a mistake, or was there a fastrack announcement.

The rulebook: http://scca.com/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf

The relevant sections:

16.C.1.b Sample Excluded Vehicles:

Porsche, all

Datsun Z car 2+2

Honda CRX

JDM-spec cars

MGB GT

Triumph, all

Note that 16.C.1.b applies to SM. The following applies to SM2:

16.C.2.a

a) All two seat cars, including the types of cars listed above in 16.C.1.b, which are not excluded below.

SM2 exclusion list includes:

16.C.2.c

c) Excluded Vehicles: Lotus (all), two seater cars not eligible for the Street Prepared category.

 

For SM, 16.C.1.b exlcudes JDM-spec cars, then rule 16.C.2.a for SM2 includes JDM-spec cars. The SM2 exclusions in 16.C.2.c exclude two-seaters not allowed in Street Prepared, which would exclude JDM-spec two seaters. Ergo, JDM-spec 2+2 and four seaters are allowed in SM2 per the current rules.

Somebody feel free to prove me wrong on this.

 

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Steve Sulatycki
Kansas City Region

Great......

SM vehicle eligibility is not consistent between rule 16 and Appendix A (where I looked).

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Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

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Brandon
NWOR

zzyzx wrote:

For SM, 16.C.1.b exlcudes JDM-spec cars, then rule 16.C.2.a for SM2 includes JDM-spec cars. The SM2 exclusions in 16.C.2.c exclude two-seaters not allowed in Street Prepared, which would exclude JDM-spec two seaters. Ergo, JDM-spec 2+2 and four seaters are allowed in SM2 per the current rules. Somebody feel free to prove me wrong on this.

I thought that somewhere either here or on one of the many lists this was established.  I seem to remember Chris Shenefeld wanting to campaign a JDM Skyline. 

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Rob Leone

'07 Solstice GXP in AS
'87 Toyota Corolla in EP
ex - '91 MR2 Turbo in SM2 <- If you can't set a good example, serve as a horrible warning.

Found it. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/stu/message/13493 from 2003.

It was in a fastrack but it looks like the rule didn't make it into the rulebook in a correct and consistant form.

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Rob Leone

'07 Solstice GXP in AS
'87 Toyota Corolla in EP
ex - '91 MR2 Turbo in SM2 <- If you can't set a good example, serve as a horrible warning.

Good catch.

I documented this issue and sent it to Doug Gill.

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Steve Sulatycki
Kansas City Region