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I understand the point about participation that both Su and Donnie make. However, like I mentioned in the letter I sent to the National Office, if I can't make the Finale, it is most certainly not worth the rather significant chunk of change I will spend on running DC and Peru. I'd prefer to cut my losses now, and put the money into something that isn't going to jack me over halfway through it.

Maybe the Atlanta Region will have another DoubleX series this fall. That would be worth my while.

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Karen Kraus
2005 SCCA SEDiv FS Champion
2007 SCCA DSL National Champion
2008 SCCA ProSolo L1 Champion

lol, all this hubbub over the early warning this year and nobody hardly said anything about the last minute Finale format change last year, which ended up being quite the disaster ... I'd say the earlier warning is at least an improvement of sorts.

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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

Mark, perhaps you missed all the hubbub last year about the Finale format change...

link

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177 STX

Since I'll likely be in the Finale, I'm not going to run the warm-up event.  I'll have the surface figured out in 12 runs.  I would modify Andy's schedule the other way around and move Nat's one day later.  Right now you have a lot of ProSolo people that don't run in the warm-up.  Some people might run both becuase it's better then sitting around doing nothing.  If the ProSolo is after Nat's then you have a larger number of ProSolo people that are going to want to run in the warm-up.  I would use a schedule like this:

Friday: ProSolo practice starts
Sat-Sun:  ProSolo Finale and after the Finale set-up for the Warm-up so more cars can get through on Monday.
Monday: Warm-up
Tuesday: Course set-up for Nat's
Wed-Sat: Nat's

This would require the least amount of time for people to take off of work.  Most (but not all) could get home for work Monday morning if it was an issue.  I'm sure work on Monday would be rough for those in the corners of the US, but is it better to not go to Nat's at all?  I've driven back home to DC from Topeka starting on Saturday and gotten home on Sunday morning (a lot of people to this).  I know the guys from LA have about 400 more miles to drive then I do, which is doable on a Sunday afternoon to get home to be at work on Monday.

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Phil K.
2002 Camaro SS, #68 ESP

FWIW, it's full.

 

http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/frmEntryList.Show?psevent_id=5519&psrnd=.64456710306680895763266524384278159336

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Cliffie "The Wrench"
www.ChattanoogaMafia.com

Fastech Motorwerks
DSP 98 BMW 328iS

"I don't know where we are going, but there is no sense in being late."

Cliffscca:

FWIW, it's full.

 

http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/frmEntryList.Show?psevent_id=5519&psrnd=.64456710306680895763266524384278159336

It is? Well dang!

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#95 STS.

pknowles:

I would use a schedule like this:

Friday: ProSolo practice starts
Sat-Sun:  ProSolo Finale and after the Finale set-up for the Warm-up so more cars can get through on Monday.
Monday: Warm-up
Tuesday: Course set-up for Nat's
Wed-Sat: Nat's

This would require the least amount of time for people to take off of work.  Most (but not all) could get home for work Monday morning if it was an issue.  I'm sure work on Monday would be rough for those in the corners of the US, but is it better to not go to Nat's at all?  I've driven back home to DC from Topeka starting on Saturday and gotten home on Sunday morning (a lot of people to this).  I know the guys from LA have about 400 more miles to drive then I do, which is doable on a Sunday afternoon to get home to be at work on Monday.

I wonder how many participants over the past few years have spent more than one day to get to Topeka? West & East Coasters are generally two day trips. But what percent of total competitors make up that group? Anyone have some numbers?

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Matt Murray

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today.

Random Comments...

Monday could have been used for warm up and setup.  Monday is a wasted day for the most part.  Especially since nobody has to go on crater repair duty.  I have seen too many GREAT courses setup and walked on the morning of an event to believe the argument that it takes a day to setup and walk.  Run the warmup from 8 - 4, Setup from 4-6, walk from 6-9 and then again on Tuesday morning.

People who think that ProSolo is the premier event are delusional.  It may have been, in a time long ago and a galaxy far away, but now it's a novelty.  I could not be less interested in ProSolo, and I suspect I'm in the majority.  I'm not sure why I have that outlook - maybe because I don't remember the glory days.  I started in '98 and PS has always been this weird offshoot that I have never understood.  I did run a pro because I figured that there was something that I just wasn't getting, but no - it was as I expected.  A boring, short course with the novelty of a tree.

The timing of the announcement sucks.  Especially since these questions have been on the table since the announcement of the HPT move.

Odd that Cindy didn't know, since she was brought in to be the savior of pro solo.

We could move the warm up to after nationals.  :)

 

Oh I'm standing waaaayyy back now from this thread... 

Dave G.

What's the big deal with needing a warm up to "learn the new surface" anyway?  Is it some kind of magical pavement? 

Brian

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'06 Lotus Elise
'07 Mazdaspeed 3 (rain car!)
NWR-SCCA
SS/Pax #75

CamaroFS34:

Maybe the Atlanta Region will have another DoubleX series this fall. That would be worth my while.

http://www.doublexchallenge.com/

/shameless plug

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Joel Fehrman
2005 Subaru WRX STi - BSP

OrangeVette:

I like Andy's schedule idea from a few pages back, I would even be willing to skip the practice starts on Friday, by that time we all would have had 2-3 days running on the surface. This could mean that we could move the the Pro start back to Friday, helping out all on the two coasts.  (Of course a late morning start so we can enjoy the banquet the night before  ). 

+1  I'd rather start on Friday and use Sunday for travel than start on Saturday and travel on Monday.  Other than that I like Andy's idea.

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Joel Fehrman
2005 Subaru WRX STi - BSP

Why is the Warmup so important?

Used to be pretty darn important to those of us who rarely run on concrete.  Probably not so much now, I expect to find it similar to a bunch of other sites I normally run on.  Maybe it's just the carry-over thinking.  I like the Warmup because it relaxes me.  I go out and do a bunch of stupid stuff to see what I can get away with.  Makes me feel more confident on day one when it counts.

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Patrick Washburn
Lucky Lugnut Racing
SoloPro Driving Schools
Red Eye Brewing Co

The "warm-up" event never existed until faily recently.  And I have no issue with a warm-up event in and of itself. 

However, it causes the Pro Finale to have mickey-mouse courses.  We have to fit 2 courses, etc on the South course site.  I always thought it'd be nice to have a REAL ProSolo Finale, but never thought it would happen because of the Forbes site. 

Fast forward to HPT.  Now we all know the site isn't huge.  And let's face it, the National Courses will have to be smaller to accomodate.  I was one who very early on called SCCA and let my feelings be known that I thought the Pro/warm-up on the same surface was a HUGE problem for both the Pro and the warm-up. 

I, from a personal schedule standpoint, have no problem with this plan.  However, I'm doubt I'm in the majority.  I'm really unclear as to why the Pro wasn't just put after Nationals (like it used to be before my time).  After all, in recent times DSQ's from the Pro haven't been held over to Nationals anyway.  Let those folks who don't travel the country running SCCA's series show up early for the practices.  When it's all over, the site is left to the Pro folks (with tons of room).  Better all around. 

I'm happy they didn't try and stuff 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag.  But they way the crap was split leaves more than a little to be desired (MHO). 

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Sam Strano
Strano Performance Parts
814-849-3450

I am one of the lucky ones with fllexibility in my work schedule to make the Friday ProSolo start.  In fact, I'll probably work remotely on the days that I'm not driving.  Regardless, this change screws me over big time because I've probably lost two co-drivers in the process (for the Finale and for the Peru and DC events).  The cost of racing just went way up for me over the weekend.

Now, a potential solution that has not been mentioned yet.  As far as I see it, the purpose of the warm-up event is two-fold: 1) Scrub in tires and 2) Allow drivers to get themselves and their cars acclimated to the surface.  The event doesn't need to be held in "prime-time" to accomplish this.  I propose that we run the practice event in the evening folowing ProSolo competition.  This could be done on both Saturday and Sunday (if the effort is there for quick course tear-down and setup), or it could be done on Sunday evening only when the ProSolo challenge has completed.  There is a cost that would be associated with renting portable lighting, and that should be figured into the warm-up budget.  The type of portable lights used at road construction sights are effective and affordable (an example is here: http://www.starrentals.com/rentals.lighting.html).  With this approach the warm-up event could start at approximately 6PM and run until about 1AM (did someone say after-party at Babydolls?).

Benefits of this approach are more accessability to the warm-up for folks driving from far away, more spectators at the ProSolo Finale (as they will be running shortly after the Challenge ends), and more series participants at all ProSolo events.  One criticism may be that the surface will be cooler, and therefore the grip level will be different.  IMO that is an acceptable loss compared to sacrificing the ProSolo experience for many.

On a personal note, I decided to try the ProSolo series this season instead of the National Tour events that I have been running for the past few years.  My schedule and that of my co-driver only allow us to do one or the other.  I based that decision on the perception that this series was heading in the right direction, with positive changes for 2006.  I was very happy with the Walnut Ridge event, but this change to the schedule (and the impact it has on my co-driver situation) has made me regret my decision.  I hope that the national office decides to make this right, as it is not too late to salvage the ProSolo season for those who are making the largest investment in the sport.

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Joel Fehrman
2005 Subaru WRX STi - BSP