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Bucketlist:

Someone posted ( "I wouldn't hold up on Shelby conversions." )

 
In fact, I would not suggest Shelby Conversions at all in F "stock" unless you own a "real" Shelby GT.  They are not legally convertible from stock, or even from a California Special unless you have every single Shelby component, documented exactly as it came from Shelby, including the Carroll Shelby signed dash plaque, fender emblems, rear panel and hood scoop, which Shelby only supplies with a "real" Shelby Automobile. Every car and serial number is well documented.

In fact, you need to be aware that a Shelby GT was never offered with a 3.73. They come with automatics or a 3.55 ( as an option).The FRPP3 suspension is, and was, only available on a "real", documented Shelby GT from Shelby. If you don't have full documentation that your car is a true Shelby, then you are kidding yourself, and possibly wasting your money, or Caroll will be after you. In any event, it won't be cheap.

It's like a Rolex, you either have one, or you don't. Imitations are not legal. In some areas, they are confiscated. It does not qualify for F "Stock".

Better have your original window stickers with you, plus the actual Shelby window stickers showing these cars are true Shelbys and showing the included options. 

These newer cars are very easy to document, and they are also very easy to bump if you don't have all the correct original documentation. Every single piece is required. No exceptions.

I'm not trying to create a conflict here, just explain the rules, as I see them.  There are still plenty of 2007 Shelby GTs out there for sale if you want to go buy one and run in FS. Building one from a mish-mash of aftermarket parts , however, is not a viable option for F Stock, IMHO.

Just my 2 cents.

SteveS

2008 Bullitt Black  118 FS 

2008 Bullitt DHG   118 FS 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve, there are some truths to your post like the fact there are plenty of 2007 Shelby GT's for sale and that building one from a mish-mash of after market parts is not a viable option.  However, as it stands folks who might be looking at doing the conversion are not doing so in an attempt to pawn off a copied car.  They are doing so to gain the performance benefits for solo competition.  The one completed conversion that is widely known is Jason's car.  It is extremely well documented in its parts, their origin and purpose. 

According to the rules, Option package conversions between make and model within the same model year are allowed provided you do the complete conversion.  Now this is where you say "Well its not complete because you dont have the fancy dash plaque with a serial number and signature."  and so on down the line.   Which brings us to 13.2 of the rule book that says in the opening sentence that reads 

Accessories, gauges, indicators, lights and other appearance,
comfort and convenience modifications which have no effect on
performance and/or handling and do not materially reduce the
weight of the car are permitted.

It has been pretty well proven that sans all the Shelby emblems, there is no difference in the weight of the car, nor does his signature add any performance or handling to the car.  Ok, so badges....We dont need no stinkin badges!!  Based on all of this the accepted practice is to start with a California Special, a car that is complete from the factory and not a dealer install which gives you a 54U.  That 54U includes front and rear facia, 18" wheels, side scoops, and a 3.55 rear end.  The only way anyone would have a 3.73 rear end is if they purchased an 08 Bullitt or GT500KR.  All thats left now is to go to your Ford Dealer or Sam for that matter and purchase the remaining performance parts which would be the power pack with the cold air intake and new computer tune, and the handling pack that gives you the lower springs, shocks/struts(not that they matter), front and rear bars, and strut tower brace.  The only thing here that is changeable from the FRP's would be shocks and struts, everything else must be the FRP items which are quite obvious and easy to pick out on any conversion or real Shelby GT. 

 
Oh yeah lets not forget the T82 aka GT Premium which brings in the air bag seats, an item that could honestly be considered "materially reducing weight" if not included, which is why the line item for the car listing states you must have it.  That is again pretty obvious when looking in the car or you can step around to see the VIN. 

As for these newer cars being very easy to document, that may be the case with some but not with all.  I would wager there are differences between your Bullitt and another Bullitt just down the road in terms of part numbers and documentation.  If they were truly easy to document, then Ford would have zero issue in answering my simple and straight forward questions regarding what should be on the car vs what is on the car.  In walks protests at my next event
 

Bucketlist:

Someone posted ( "I wouldn't hold up on Shelby conversions." )

In fact, I would not suggest Shelby Conversions at all in F "stock" unless you own a "real" Shelby GT.  They are not legally convertible from stock, or even from a California Special unless you have every single Shelby component, documented exactly as it came from Shelby, including the Carroll Shelby signed dash plaque, fender emblems, rear panel and hood scoop, which Shelby only supplies with a "real" Shelby Automobile. Every car and serial number is well documented.

In fact, you need to be aware that a Shelby GT was never offered with a 3.73. They come with automatics or a 3.55 ( as an option).The FRPP3 suspension is, and was, only available on a "real", documented Shelby GT from Shelby. If you don't have full documentation that your car is a true Shelby, then you are kidding yourself, and possibly wasting your money, or Caroll will be after you. In any event, it won't be cheap.

It's like a Rolex, you either have one, or you don't. Imitations are not legal. In some areas, they are confiscated. It does not qualify for F "Stock".

Better have your original window stickers with you, plus the actual Shelby window stickers showing these cars are true Shelbys and showing the included options. 

These newer cars are very easy to document, and they are also very easy to bump if you don't have all the correct original documentation. Every single piece is required. No exceptions.

I'm not trying to create a conflict here, just explain the rules, as I see them.  There are still plenty of 2007 Shelby GTs out there for sale if you want to go buy one and run in FS. Building one from a mish-mash of aftermarket parts , however, is not a viable option for F Stock, IMHO.

Just my 2 cents.

SteveS

2008 Bullitt Black  118 FS 

2008 Bullitt DHG   118 FS 

 

And if you need a dash plaque, Shelby will sell you one:

 http://www.shelbyperformanceparts.com/ShowItem/100514%20Dash%20plaque%20and%20sill%20plate%20kit.aspx

Not cheap, but it's a dash plaque with a Shelby signature.

AFAIK the only part that is difficult to get is the hood scoop (and I know someone who has one and will probably be using it to make a clone (I call them Phelbys). Imitations are legal as long as they are functionally correct and complete.

jhue75:

Yah, road racing and starting a business makes me think twice about where I could get some cash. That and I want to tow home a Vette that has sentimental value to me. You got a PM Rob.

Dude, I'm not letting you take my Corvette, no matter what cuddling we've done in the past.

Rob: I wasn't trying to start a clusterxxxx here. I read an article not too long ago by Carroll Shelby that discussed his views on clones, copies, aftermarket pirates, etc.

He wasn't very complementary about any of them, including the AC Cobra knock-offs. In fact, he seemed upset. I can't say that I blame him. He's worked hard for what he has. From hints at what was said, now that everything is a larger corporation, there could be future "efforts" brought to better protect the corporation's copyrights and trademarks. If there is one thing I've learned, it's that a corporation will spare no expense to protect their "intellectual" property. It's just a write-off for them. I looked into this because I was trying to find out how to get Shelby's "Terlingua Racing Team " hood paint scheme ( or similar ) painted on the hood of my black car. In the end, I'm still just plain stock black because of the potential risk. Yeah, it may not be such a big deal, but suppose photos of the car wind up on the front cover of Sports Car, or inside some other publication? In then end, I decided I might be better off to just go with decals of a yellow rabbit holding a shot glass and call it Tequila Race team. It's actually much more appropriate.

 FYI, my Bullitts are optioned identical, just different VINs, FR identification numbers, and exterior paint colors. 

I kind of feel the same way about the Bullitts. There have been plenty out there, at, or very close to X plan pricing. No need to start cloning when a clone will never be a Bullitt. The Bullitts were a limited production run, each with a unique number. You can't clone and document the number, so why bother.

When I look at the more recent National FS Solo times, and compare the times between the best FS driver ( and we all know who that it ) and the rest of the field, the big difference can only be because of the better skill of the driver. IMHO  mods may explain a few tenths or a few hundredths difference, but when the margins approach 2 seconds, it doesn't really matter. A good driver can put together good runs in any car with potential.

Learning to drive is much cheaper and more rewarding than cloning. 

Steve S 

2008 Bullitt  Black  118 FS

2008 Bullitt DHG   118 FS 

Bucketlist:

Rob: I wasn't trying to start a clusterxxxx here. I read an article not too long ago by Carroll Shelby that discussed his views on clones, copies, aftermarket pirates, etc.

He wasn't very complementary about any of them, including the AC Cobra knock-offs. In fact, he seemed upset. I can't say that I blame him. He's worked hard for what he has. From hints at what was said, now that everything is a larger corporation, there could be future "efforts" brought to better protect the corporation's copyrights and trademarks. If there is one thing I've learned, it's that a corporation will spare no expense to protect their "intellectual" property. It's just a write-off for them. I looked into this because I was trying to find out how to get Shelby's "Terlingua Racing Team " hood paint scheme ( or similar ) painted on the hood of my black car. In the end, I'm still just plain stock black because of the potential risk. Yeah, it may not be such a big deal, but suppose photos of the car wind up on the front cover of Sports Car, or inside some other publication? In then end, I decided I might be better off to just go with decals of a yellow rabbit holding a shot glass and call it Tequila Race team. It's actually much more appropriate.

 FYI, my Bullitts are optioned identical, just different VINs, FR identification numbers, and exterior paint colors. 

I kind of feel the same way about the Bullitts. There have been plenty out there, at, or very close to X plan pricing. No need to start cloning when a clone will never be a Bullitt. The Bullitts were a limited production run, each with a unique number. You can't clone and document the number, so why bother.

When I look at the more recent National FS Solo times, and compare the times between the best FS driver ( and we all know who that it ) and the rest of the field, the big difference can only be because of the better skill of the driver. IMHO  mods may explain a few tenths or a few hundredths difference, but when the margins approach 2 seconds, it doesn't really matter. A good driver can put together good runs in any car with potential.

Learning to drive is much cheaper and more rewarding than cloning. 

 

Steve S 

2008 Bullitt  Black  118 FS

2008 Bullitt DHG   118 FS 

 

I think something is being lost in translation here.  It would seem that some are under the impression this and even a few other threads are about creating a Shelby GT from a regular GT Premium or whatever baseline someone owns.  Thats actually not at all what is being done.  Think of it more in terms of using a formula that has been proven as mathematically correct.  If Shelby did not want folks to be able to reproduce the performance specs of a car he put his name on, he should have gone out and used proprietary parts that no one can buy anywhere.  Instead, he chose to simply make the stripes, hood scoop, and dash plaque the proprietary items and used Ford Racing performance parts that anyone can buy at will.  I have seen a number of 2005-2006-2007 regular GT's with the lowering spring kits directly from a dealer that come with a full warranty from Ford.  I seem to remember a conversation with someone who had talked to Ford about a number of things regarding their FR1 and FR3 packages and how Ford was confused as to why more folks were not buying those packages over a Shelby GT because of the price difference between the end results.  Some dealers are buying the packages and installing them for people before they buy the car, others are going back later and doing it. 

Basically using the proven formula allows folks to gain the performance advantages without paying for the Shelby name and if that were in anyway illegal, you would not see these same parts on regular GT's on just about any dealers lot or being offered by any knowledgeable salesperson. 

 
The Bullitt specs are a regular GT with a couple simple changes in performance, none of which are in the handling department unfortunately. 
 

Rob:

Thanks. I'm well aware of the Bullitt specs, and the fact that the FRPP3 is  currently still missing. I think the point is that if you do make a clone out of a GT, then it should be entered as a GT, and should not be referred to as a Shelby on the SCCA entry, paperwork, and publicity, because it is not a Shelby.

Steve S. 

Bucketlist....you have a PM.....

Jason- You have a PM, and a nice car !!!

Steve 

ccytrader:

I think something is being lost in translation here.  It would seem that some are under the impression this and even a few other threads are about creating a Shelby GT from a regular GT Premium or whatever baseline someone owns.  Thats actually not at all what is being done.  Think of it more in terms of using a formula that has been proven as mathematically correct.  If Shelby did not want folks to be able to reproduce the performance specs of a car he put his name on, he should have gone out and used proprietary parts that no one can buy anywhere.  Instead, he chose to simply make the stripes, hood scoop, and dash plaque the proprietary items and used Ford Racing performance parts that anyone can buy at will.  I have seen a number of 2005-2006-2007 regular GT's with the lowering spring kits directly from a dealer that come with a full warranty from Ford.  I seem to remember a conversation with someone who had talked to Ford about a number of things regarding their FR1 and FR3 packages and how Ford was confused as to why more folks were not buying those packages over a Shelby GT because of the price difference between the end results.  Some dealers are buying the packages and installing them for people before they buy the car, others are going back later and doing it. 

Basically using the proven formula allows folks to gain the performance advantages without paying for the Shelby name and if that were in anyway illegal, you would not see these same parts on regular GT's on just about any dealers lot or being offered by any knowledgeable salesperson. 

 
The Bullitt specs are a regular GT with a couple simple changes in performance, none of which are in the handling department unfortunately. 
 

Agree 100%. The shelby is nothing special. It's bolts on's with a couple graphics. It's like buying a car with a sport package. If he really cared about making a car no one could reproduce he would have done some things differently. Different wheel bolt pattern (ITR) seem weld chassis (nizmo 350), Hand built higher hp/rpm engine (BMW M's).  Basically when you buy a shelby your paying $10k more for $2k worth of parts and a hood scoop that you can't buy (and looks cheap).  I don't see the argument here.

I think most of the points of this subject are noted. Lets move on from this one and not let it degenerate to anything else.

BucketList- Steve -

Welcome back, let us know how the Bullitt is treating you. I know Rob and his dad wheel theirs around pretty good. It will be fun to see more of them in the future at events.

Cheers,

J H

So you're saying your car is legal, Jason? 

Seriously, guys, this is a road well-traveled.  Let it go.