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You know, the Pro finale used to be held the weekend *after* Nats.  Of course, that was before we had Friday practice starts (Friday was for drinking and eating Tony Mashburn's BBQ).  And it was when the only "warm-up" was the unofficial stuff going on out at the "old site" on the other side of Salina from the real event.  But it does bring up and idea...

Thought for next year:

Saturday: Warm-up/T&T
Sunday: Solo II Nats setup/course walking (what usually happens on Monday now)
Monday-Thursday: Solo II Nats competition
Friday: Pro Solo practice starts
Saturday/Sunday: Pro Solo Finale

This reduces the number of days most folks *have* to be there and also allows for travel on a weekend to save vacation days.

--Andy

 

Andy Hollis:

You know, the Pro finale used to be held the weekend *after* Nats.  Of course, that was before we had Friday practice starts (Friday was for drinking and eating Tony Mashburn's BBQ).  And it was when the only "warm-up" was the unofficial stuff going on out at the "old site" on the other side of Salina from the real event.  But it does bring up and idea...

Thought for next year:

Saturday: Warm-up/T&T
Sunday: Solo II Nats setup/course walking (what usually happens on Monday now)
Monday-Thursday: Solo II Nats competition
Friday: Pro Solo practice starts
Saturday/Sunday: Pro Solo Finale

This reduces the number of days most folks *have* to be there and also allows for travel on a weekend to save vacation days.

--Andy

 

That would work great I think and puts the ProSolo Finale back at the top where I feel it should be.  Net result to me would be the same amount of vacation time I was going to take before the extra day I just got added on, one week plus one day.  Only downside I can see is that there are at least a few competitors who haven't done pros and get to Topeka on Sunday who get a chance to see what one is like under the current setup and none of those people would be likely to stay under this proposal.

I like Andy's idea a lot.  For a lot of reasons...then Nationals would be way more important to me than it is now.  I'd get to warm up for the event that I actually care about.

As for this bullsh*t requirement to have a warm up event, aren't there like FOUR local events on that site this year before Nationals week?  If so, that's plenty of opportunities for the non-ProSolo competitors to get their butts out there.  Too far away for that?  Run a Pro near you and then go run the Finale (there are almost always spots available for "one event' Pro competitors).

Still not ideal?  Put a warm up in on Thursday before.  Sure, way more days for those folks, but that's life.  Changing our dates this late in the game is *not* fair.  Particularly for those in classes that don't run until Thursday/Friday.  I was already planning to fly the family in to stay at the Great Wolf Lodge for the time in between, so one more day isn't a big deal for me really, but I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford that.  I know many aren't.  *sigh*

This kind of thing is going to serve to weaken Pro competition both at events from here on out and at the Finale.  What a damned shame.  I've written yet another letter this week to my BoD rep.  She's gonna get awful sick of hearing from me, but I don't care.


--Donnie

Well, this thread has revealed something else.  ProSolo people think they're doing something better than the rest of us.  Still parking lot racing, nothing serious to win.  I'm feeling less bad for you guys in case you can't tell...

Dave G.

Many ProSolo competitors do like ProSolo better than Tours, that's true.  Many also feel that it's more prestigious to win a national *points* series than just one event.  I felt that way long before bad luck hit us in CS at Nationals last year, too.

I don't really care how bad you feel for "us."  The fact is that ProSolo has been trivialized in the name of a warm up event for Natoinals.  You place more importance on that warm up event than ProSolo competitors.  That's fine, and your stance is that you can because ProSolo competitors get seat time on the surface anyway.  But the fact that a national points series of major prominence has now been changed to allow for a warm up event hasn't changed. 

I don't feel in any way "elitist" nor would I do anything to trivialize Solo National Champions, no matter what conditions they got their jacket under.  I simply prefer ProSolo and to me it is something harder to win, particularly the overall Challenge championship.  You've got your thing you think is important and I've got mine.  But there *are* opportunities to get HPT seat time before Nationals, and in fact *you* already have some.  Doesn't make sense for locals to take the side of Nationals warmups over screwing a lot of ProSolo competitors out of their Finale.

Put my vote down for Andy's schedule for next year.


--Donnie

While Andy's suggestion for 2007 is an interesting one, someone on a local list made a recommendation which really makes sense, even for consideration this year:

Why do the Nationals have to be run so that they end on Friday?  How about extending the events (as in Pro, Warmer, Nats) into the following Saturday?  That would mean Pro in the original Friday starts to Sunday Challenge rounds and Banquet.  Monday for the much-ballyhooed Warmup event.  Tuesday to set the courses and allow excess walking, with the four competition days following.

Seems to me that very few competitors need the entire weekend to get home for Monday morning at the job.  So why do we force the ending on Friday?  Finishing up on Saturday makes much more sense to me than pushing the Pro 24 hours earlier. 

Alan

(Missing Oscoda and Toledo.  Now trailer pooling for Walnut Ridge, DC, and Peru)

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Alan Sheidler
F125#21
Honda/Renpeed

Doesn't work too well for us West coasters.

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Bill Schenker, SPAC member
CalClub & S.D.R. #14 CSP 10AE Miata
Owner/Builder 2005-'07 CSP ProSolo Finale Champ./2007 National Champ. & runner up

Warmup event registration open...
http://www.kansasregionscca.org/warmup.htm

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Rick Cone
Atlanta Region Secretary

STS2 #98
1991 Mazda Miata - Aqua

djb_rh:

Many ProSolo competitors do like ProSolo better than Tours, that's true.  Many also feel that it's more prestigious to win a national *points* series than just one event.  I felt that way long before bad luck hit us in CS at Nationals last year, too.

I don't really care how bad you feel for "us."  The fact is that ProSolo has been trivialized in the name of a warm up event for Natoinals.  You place more importance on that warm up event than ProSolo competitors.  That's fine, and your stance is that you can because ProSolo competitors get seat time on the surface anyway.  But the fact that a national points series of major prominence has now been changed to allow for a warm up event hasn't changed. 

I don't feel in any way "elitist" nor would I do anything to trivialize Solo National Champions, no matter what conditions they got their jacket under.  I simply prefer ProSolo and to me it is something harder to win, particularly the overall Challenge championship.  You've got your thing you think is important and I've got mine.  But there *are* opportunities to get HPT seat time before Nationals, and in fact *you* already have some.  Doesn't make sense for locals to take the side of Nationals warmups over screwing a lot of ProSolo competitors out of their Finale.

Put my vote down for Andy's schedule for next year.


--Donnie

Sorry, my post was a little harsh.  I appologize. 

I do find it interesting that quite a few people see the warm-up as just a regional event.  To me (and I'd guess quite a few others), it's an integral part of nationals.  Similar to having practice days before a road race.

One thing that turned me off somewhat, and this isn't directed at you Donnie, is some of the posts that were almost attacking the Kansas Region people.  They work their butts off every year to put on the warm-up event, staying out there from sun up to sun down in order to allow as many people to run as possible. 

Dave G.

talon95:

Well, this thread has revealed something else.  ProSolo people think they're doing something better than the rest of us.  Still parking lot racing, nothing serious to win.  I'm feeling less bad for you guys in case you can't tell...

Dave G.

I don't think ProSolo is better, I do think it's more fun and a much greater achievement to win since it requires something more than luck.  I honestly would NOT go to Nationals if it weren't for the Pro Finale being the same week, it just doesn't matter to me.  At some time in the past the National staff seems to have gotten the idea that the Pro Finale is just warmups for Nationals for the majority of the people who do it.  The truth from just about everyone I've talked to is that Nationals is just something else to do since you're already in Topeka for the Finale.

I was one point out of the series trophies in Pro last year and .013 out of the trophies in Nationals.  I've spent a heck of a lot more time over the last 8 months thinking about that one series point than I have about my .013 seconds.  To me and to most of the competitors who do the Pros it is more important than the Nationals but that does not mean we think we're better than people who don't do Pros.  We do think we should be ranked on top of a stinking practice event though and it hurts the series and those of us who don't have flexibility that the national staff doesn't agree.

STX77:

I don't think ProSolo is better, I do think it's more fun and a much greater achievement to win since it requires something more than luck.  I honestly would NOT go to Nationals if it weren't for the Pro Finale being the same week, it just doesn't matter to me.  At some time in the past the National staff seems to have gotten the idea that the Pro Finale is just warmups for Nationals for the majority of the people who do it.  The truth from just about everyone I've talked to is that Nationals is just something else to do since you're already in Topeka for the Finale.

I can't dispute that.  Like I said in an earlier post, I got caught by the rain last year and it gave me a somewhat different perspective on Solo in general. 

One other thing too, I'd guess a big part of the decision to do this move was based simply on "majority rules".  Putting aside the merits of either side (Solo vs. ProSolo), if you want more consideration given to ProSolo, then it needs to grow.  I wouldn't be surprised that if there were 1100 ProSolo competitors and 250 Solo competitors, the decision might have been different.

Dave G.

I REALLY like Andy's idea.
Clutch and drivetrain parts have a harder time at Pro's versus Solo events.
No sense busting your rig right before Nats...
FM

No, I believe "MONEY rules!" Now that national office is "splitting" the practice event with the regional club (read after this year's test we won't need your butts out there any more next year taking any $).

This sucks monkey turds! Many of us have our hotel booked already, what happens when they can't accomidate adding wed/thurs nite onto the booking? Change hotels Friday AM while getting ready to run the "premier event"???

Well at least there is still time to cancel Mineral Wells... :(

PS: Home office tried to kill PS this year and barely got outvoted, so now it looks like they are trying to produce a self fulfilling prophesy that there aren't enough people that care about PS by cutting events, putting the ones they do have in God forsaken locations far away from the competitor's home base, and now this. IMHO PS is considered "too much trouble" (i.e. constant equipment failure complaints etc) by the entropy prevelent in Topeka office. If they can make the series as unappealing as possible they can kill it and say "NOT our fault!".

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TEAM DYNAMICS

03 GSL, 05 HSL Nat Champ
AS 07 Solstice GXP

Put me down as another supporter of Andy's idea. 

Essentially, the decision to move the event makes this an either-or situation for me.  I really enjoy the Pro Solo format.  I also have a better opportunity for contingency in the Pros since Honda doesn't pay for Tours.  I probably can't work out the change on the vacation time but I will try.  If not, I will either have to run the Pro or the Championship.  Right now, I'm leaning toward the Pro.  However, since I haven't run the two Pros that I intended to run, I could just save some money and bail on them alltogether. 

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Mark Pilson
owner of STS2 Honduh
co-driver of HS Subaru (race tires rule)

talon95:

Well, this thread has revealed something else.  ProSolo people think they're doing something better than the rest of us.  Still parking lot racing, nothing serious to win.  I'm feeling less bad for you guys in case you can't tell...

Dave G.

What you are sensing isn't so much an elitist or "us vs them" mentality.  Rather, its community spirit/comraderie of a subset of the larger overall solo community.  That subset is linked by the common thread of following a series around the country (or some part of the country).  Making that commitment of time/money in any given year gives one a strong sense of purpose for that year's Finale.  It *is* a really big deal for anyone who has made such a commitment.  Doesn't mean those people think they are better than those that haven't made such a commitment.  Just that they have been led to expect certain things in a Finale event.

--Andy

PS: I was floored when I heard about this deal, realizing immediately how many people would be affected in a negative way.  Its mostly a timing issue.  If the decision had been made over the winter, its no big deal.  And I don't believe any new information was pending in making that decision now, but I could be wrong.