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Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

Last post 02-03-2010, 10:04 PM by dannykao. 8 replies.
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  •  01-25-2010, 7:01 PM 400230

    Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    My 78 Civic is in pieces. The one year teardown and rebuild has stretched into four. Other things like moving, building a new garage, etc just get in the way of the rebuild. Anyway I was looking though craigslist last week and bought a Track Magic Diablo with Rotax. It was less than the KT100 karts I have seen advertised locally, its in good shape cosmetically and runs, but has set unused since 2006 and needs some fresh fuel and probably a carb rebuild, the tires are rocks too and the rears leak. My plan is not to try to be super worried about being competitive with the shifter 125s just to get the kart functional and get back to driving something this season. Being totally new to Karts = There is a lot of generic chassis information online along with engine service tips. I'm sure though there are a few things that would be handy to know, any info, hints or pm's would be great!

  •  01-26-2010, 4:29 AM 400258 in reply to 400230

    Re: Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    Are you going to run the sealed Rotax configuration or are you going to run it in TAG configuration?

    You can find lots of good info at www.ekartingnews.com that will be useful for you.  There's even an autox section.  You should know that clutch karts are not the swiftest thing from a standing start.

    My son raced a sealed Rotax that had been sitting for awhile.  If it was just parked without draining the fuel, you'll want to completely rebuild the carb.  The sealed configuration is pretty darn picky if you want it to run at maximum performance.


    Charles
    TAC/TVR
    CSP RX-7 for AutoX - for sale
    PR RX-7 for RallyX
  •  01-26-2010, 7:57 AM 400271 in reply to 400258

    Re: Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    Thank you! I had no idea there was different configurations. I was planning on redoing the carb it runs like it needs rebuilt, not crisp at all. I'm not worried about not having gears. I know they are faster but this was a deal that I got a kart and stand for less than the price of a used Rotax by itself. So if in the fall I want a faster one I will not loose or I can pass it on if I just decide to run my Civic next year.  Just looking to get out there again and drive, not going to NE.

    Thanks for the link I will do some reading!

  •  01-26-2010, 10:21 AM 400284 in reply to 400271

    • CSP21 is not online. Last active: 03/16/2010, 9:39 AM CSP21
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    Re: Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    The TAG can be competitive at the local level. It might even be an advantage at first since some struggle with the shifting aspect of shifter karts more than others. I say run it and don't be surprised if you start to get a lot of interest from other members in your region.

    Tom
    181 F125 - '08 GP8 Mod Honda
  •  02-02-2010, 8:16 PM 401325 in reply to 400284

    Re: Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    Our region had (still has) a 06 Rotax 125 that we used last year as a recruiting tool.  Interestingly enough, not a single recruit drove the TAG became a regular, but we grew from 7 regulars to 13-14 season subscriptions this year, and we expect somewhere around 20 per event once the season starts, so it might had some effect. 

    You will lose a lot of time at the start in a Rotax.  You simply can't hammer the throttle and expect it to take off and subsequently you will lose about 1-2 seconds at the launch.  Once it's on the way, you would actually pick up time if you are not familiar with shifting.  Like Tom said you can actually concentrate more on driving instead of driving plus shifting, which could make your time faster.

    Once you are used to shifting, then there is no comparison.  A shifter will be faster than a TAG in autocross.  We have a very good driver locally who ran the TAG all year last year, and he would consistently beat me in just about every type of car or kart, but I am generally 0.5 - 1 second faster than him in my shifter vs his TAG.  In our T&T I have ran the shifter and TAG back to back and the shifter will always be faster.

    Depending on the setup, a lot of TAG do not run rear bar or front bar in sprint races, which is somewhat of a challenge to drive when the tires are cold in autox conditions.  You can easily setup the kart similar to the shifters, make everything stiff, and get some sticky tires.  And you should be ready to go.

    I can share with you some of my setup information.  Please keep in mind I am a mediocre driver and my setup is probably not worth much, but it will get you started.

    Vega yellow when it's cool, MG green when it's hot.

    Start with 47" front width and 54" rear width.  Widen the front to get more front grip, shorten the rear if you have exit understeer.

    Run front and rear torsion bar, put the 4th rail on if you have one.

    Most folks set the ride height on the high side.  My ride height is in the middle because I am taller.

    Front and rear weight bias should be somewhere around 43/57 to 40/60 range.

    Toe out in the front.

    Run at least two seat strut and add more if you like.

    I don't run any camber, but I do run with more caster.

    Setup your seat with the bottom of the seat the same height as the bottom of the chassis tube.  Some folks run a little lower, but I don't think it's worth it to scrap the bottom.

    You don't have front brakes, but I think this year you can add them without weight penalty.  So definitely add front brakes if you can.

    If I remember correctly, we ran 86 tooth rear sprocket for autox for a top speed of 72.  

    I am sure the manual can tell you better, but I think we ran 24:1 redline synthetic mix with 93 octane unleaded. 

     

    I think this will at least get you started without spinning everywhere.  If you look for previous posts from Alan and Brian both here and EKN, you will get much better setup information than what I have.  I learned just about everything from Brian and stole ideas from Alan.  But chassis setup between a shifter and TAG should be about the same. 

    P.S.  Make sure you charge the battery fully before every event.  It's not fun when you can't start the kart because the battery is not fully charged. And keep the chain well lubed.  The sprocket and chain don't do well without a lot of lubrication.  Follow the Rotax manual for jetting and gas mixture and you would be just fine.   Have fun!


    DK
  •  02-03-2010, 6:13 AM 401345 in reply to 401325

    Re: Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    Karts as a recruiting tool.   now that is a neat idea.

    Looking back since I started my son in FJB last year when there were NO karts anywhere in 3 regions to now somewhat of a cult following and we sport 6 kids at times.   It's pretty cool.

    We are actually building a methanol World Formula for an adult play toy at non sanctioned parking lots that happen to have cones scattered about in a chaotic fashion.


    Want to go faster, please send money.
  •  02-03-2010, 5:31 PM 401443 in reply to 401325

    Re: Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    Thank you for the setup info. The kart is setup much different than you explained at this time. = Really low and flexable 

    I found brackets on the right side of frame/ steering brace that look like they are for shift linkage so that option may work, but I will run the rotax for now and just see how things go :)

    It there any place were I can find out about the older Track Magic chassis specifics?  Not generic info-  there seems to be a few differences between that chassis and the generic stuff, but I could be wrong this being my 1st kart and all. One person said the TM website is no help because of new owners and they dont even have parts for the older stuff.

  •  02-03-2010, 7:18 PM 401457 in reply to 401443

    • CSP21 is not online. Last active: 03/16/2010, 9:39 AM CSP21
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    Re: Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    FWIW, we are going to run a TaG (PRD/GP8) setup as a recruiting tool this year. I think it would be much less intimidating for those willing to try. I've been considering a TaG myself but it looks like the local sprint track might shutdown leaving only the big road courses nearby.

    Tom
    181 F125 - '08 GP8 Mod Honda
  •  02-03-2010, 10:04 PM 401470 in reply to 401443

    Re: Tag (Rotax Max) in F125?

    I think your best bet is to do searches on EKN, or just go to trackmagic.com.  Sprint track karts are generally setup low and soft because the track has tons of grip.  We don't really have that in autox so the setup would be a little different; then again you might find it differently after you get some seat time.

    The most expensive part on a shifter conversion are the front brakes.  You can always sell the Rotax and get a CR125 later.

    Brand specific parts can get really expensive.  But I think brake parts, camber/caster pills, front spindle, and cassette carrier are the only chassis specific parts.  Just about everything else is universal and you can find them at TSracing, Cometkarts, Acceleration Karting, Sharkshifters, or Shockwave karting, and many others of course.  


    DK