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Mhyrr:

jeffh:

Based on their results and potential, they fit pretty well into the current ASP.  In ASP though there are some very expensive Porsches that if built up could be close to untouchable. What to do then? 

IIRC, we've seen both GT3s and GT2 with lots of power in ASP over the past couple of years, with good drivers.  I don't think it kills ASP.

 With the rally cars in BSP, you have.. rally cars.

 If the rally cars move to ASP; ASP would probably keep the same cars (I just can't see an Evo killing that class) and add the rally cars.  BSP would have C4s, M3s, and gain more S2000s, 350Zs, MS Miatas, etc.
 

I disagree.  As I said before, I've driven an ASP gt2, ASP c5z,  BSP c4, BSP evo.  My driving sucks so my times in those cars don't really mean anything but(but i am familiar with how each of them drive from first hand experience), what is important Tom has driven all of the same cars in back to back (same day, same course, not all at the same time of course).  I'm not cheerleading here, i'm bringing forth first hand experience to counter the internet speculation and bench racing.  In my opinion I wouldn't drive the current fastest evo in the country in ASP.  It would be at the bottom of the class in ASP performance wise.  Sure we could get lucky and no one with a better car desides to show up, but that's not how the classing system should work.  Sounds like a win-win to everyone else, nobody in ASP gets beat, nobody in BSP gets beat.  SP classes return to the status quo (stagnate/boring BSP and all new cars outclassed in ASP).  Those who own evos or STi's get screwed, but tha'ts ok because there are only a couple of them so far.

Marshall Grice:

Sounds like a win-win to everyone else, nobody in ASP gets beat, nobody in BSP gets beat.  SP classes return to the status quo (stagnate/boring BSP and all new cars outclassed in ASP).  Those who own evos or STi's get screwed, but tha'ts ok because there are only a couple of them so far.

Hey everybody, C4 Vets, M3's, and S2000's are boring!!   How about that...

Let's keep BSP the way it is, a 2-car Evo/STi class!  It's so much more exciting!  Whatever... 

Marshall Grice:

things change.  At the rate we're going DSP and CSP are going to be faster then BSP.  Harold (the fastest car that 'should' be in the class) infact did get beat by CSP.  You have to recognize the fact that all of the classes are getting faster. 

There's a reason CSP got faster...275-15 Hoosiers!   

leepic:

Hey everybody, C4 Vets, M3's, and S2000's are boring!!   How about that...

Let's keep BSP the way it is, a 2-car Evo/STi class!  It's so much more exciting!  Whatever... 

 

Just so we're CLEAR.  I don't think that BSP should stay the way it is.  Bring in the slower cars from ASP and put the slower cars from BSP in CSP.  The class needs to evolve to keep current.

leepic:

Marshall Grice:

things change.  At the rate we're going DSP and CSP are going to be faster then BSP.  Harold (the fastest car that 'should' be in the class) infact did get beat by CSP.  You have to recognize the fact that all of the classes are getting faster. 

There's a reason CSP got faster...275-15 Hoosiers!   

...your point?  Those tires aren't going anywhere in the forseeable future.  Those tires are also the reason DSP and FSP nearly fixed themselfs.  One could have a rather strong argument that your M3 wouldn't be competitive in CSP either.  Same with the S2k.  Does that mean we keep them in BSP and kick the fastest cars out of BSP to make your car competitive again?

Marshall Grice:

leepic:

Marshall Grice:

things change.  At the rate we're going DSP and CSP are going to be faster then BSP.  Harold (the fastest car that 'should' be in the class) infact did get beat by CSP.  You have to recognize the fact that all of the classes are getting faster. 

There's a reason CSP got faster...275-15 Hoosiers!   

  Does that mean we keep them in BSP and kick the fastest cars out of BSP to make your car competitive again?

Yes, your car is to fast for BSP.

CHRISFP78:

Marshall Grice:

leepic:

Marshall Grice:

things change.  At the rate we're going DSP and CSP are going to be faster then BSP.  Harold (the fastest car that 'should' be in the class) infact did get beat by CSP.  You have to recognize the fact that all of the classes are getting faster. 

There's a reason CSP got faster...275-15 Hoosiers!   

  Does that mean we keep them in BSP and kick the fastest cars out of BSP to make your car competitive again?

Yes, your car is to fast for BSP.

so you're argument is to make BSP the 4th fastest SP class?

for nostalgic reasons?  Nobody is going to build a 'new' c4 bsp car.  nobody is going to build a new e36 bsp car.  the class is destined to shrink if it doesn't adapt.  cars were already dropping out before the rally cars showed up.

CHRISFP78:

Marshall Grice:

  Does that mean we keep them in BSP and kick the fastest cars out of BSP to make your car competitive again?

Yes, your car is to fast for BSP.

 Bingo.  You're also not seeming to get that these classes don't go in order.  It's not supposed to be ASP is faster than BSP is faster than CSP, etc.  There's the notion of like cars in like classes.  Thus ESP is big fat V8s and similar, CSP is small, "low-powered" sports cars, etc.  ASP is the fastest of the fast.  Which is where the Evo seems to sit.
 

Mhyrr:

CHRISFP78:

Marshall Grice:

  Does that mean we keep them in BSP and kick the fastest cars out of BSP to make your car competitive again?

Yes, your car is to fast for BSP.

 Bingo.  You're also not seeming to get that these classes don't go in order.  It's not supposed to be ASP is faster than BSP is faster than CSP, etc.  There's the notion of like cars in like classes.  Thus ESP is big fat V8s and similar, CSP is small, "low-powered" sports cars, etc.  ASP is the fastest of the fast.  Which is where the Evo seems to sit.
 

the evo is currently the fastest of the 4th slowest.  just because it's at the top of bsp doesn't mean it gets a free ticket to asp.  The evo is VERY similar to a C4 vette.  It is not similar to a C5 vette. 

My understanding was they classes were designed to foster competition among cars of similar potential, not spec classes.  BTW, e36m3=small low powered sports car.

Just a word of warning Mr. Grice-----

Lets take a look at your comment about BSP getting screwed if it PULLS OUT.

 First of all if BSP were fixed, then there would be no problems with the EVO'S and STI'S pulling out.

But in the absence of BSP getting fixed, there is still a chance, however slight of BSP getting pregnant even if EVO's and STI's pull out.

So to sum up where we stand now-----I would recommend that BSP address the "fixed" problem with RUBBER, until a more permanent solution can be found.

In the interest of soliciting creative ideas.  I would also agree to a new SS-SP class being formed and ASP becoming BSP-and-a-half.

In which case the Evo would be a good fit for BSP-and-a-half.

But I also think that if such a class existed that the C4 would go with the Evo.

Just FYI, there's absolutely no way a DSP BMW will be faster than a BSP BMW. So BSP can't in any stretch of the imagination be the 4th slowest SP class. The argument that it's slow and needs the Evo and STi in there to keep it ahead of DSP is spurious.

Mike Shields:

Just FYI, there's absolutely no way a DSP BMW will be faster than a BSP BMW. So BSP can't in any stretch of the imagination be the 4th slowest SP class. The argument that it's slow and needs the Evo and STi in there to keep it ahead of DSP is spurious.

ASP, CSP, ESP. (looking at the results from nationals)  sorry for the confusion.

Marshall Grice:

In the interest of soliciting creative ideas.  I would also agree to a new SS-SP class being formed and ASP becoming BSP-and-a-half.

In which case the Evo would be a good fit for BSP-and-a-half.

But I also think that if such a class existed that the C4 would go with the Evo.

leepic:

Marshall Grice:

In the interest of soliciting creative ideas.  I would also agree to a new SS-SP class being formed and ASP becoming BSP-and-a-half.

In which case the Evo would be a good fit for BSP-and-a-half.

But I also think that if such a class existed that the C4 would go with the Evo.

NO!  Disagreed! The Evo is faster than the C4, that's one reason the Evo should move!

have you driven either cars?  or is that just an emotion driven opinion?

Marshall Grice:

leepic:

Marshall Grice:

In the interest of soliciting creative ideas.  I would also agree to a new SS-SP class being formed and ASP becoming BSP-and-a-half.

In which case the Evo would be a good fit for BSP-and-a-half.

But I also think that if such a class existed that the C4 would go with the Evo.

NO!  Disagreed! The Evo is faster than the C4, that's one reason the Evo should move!

have you driven either cars?  or is that just an emotion driven opinion?

Opinion driven by logic and close observation.  Just because I ran BS in '07 doesn't mean I haven't been paying attention.

leepic:

Marshall Grice:

leepic:

Marshall Grice:

In the interest of soliciting creative ideas.  I would also agree to a new SS-SP class being formed and ASP becoming BSP-and-a-half.

In which case the Evo would be a good fit for BSP-and-a-half.

But I also think that if such a class existed that the C4 would go with the Evo.

NO!  Disagreed! The Evo is faster than the C4, that's one reason the Evo should move!

have you driven either cars?  or is that just an emotion driven opinion?

Yes, I have driven the cars.

Opinion driven by logic and close observation.  Just because I ran BS in '07 doesn't mean I haven't been paying attention.

 Well which evo or sti have you driven?

Marshall Grice:

 Well which evo or sti have you driven?