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RX7 KLR wrote the following post at 05/12/2006 5:50 PM:
I talked to Cindy and I can tell you she had nothing to do with this. She has no input on Natls this year and was told this is happening.

It is going to be assumed that the decision came from those whose names are on the memo. That is why I thought she had input into the decision.

Karen

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Karen Kraus
2005 SCCA SEDiv FS Champion
2007 SCCA DSL National Champion
2008 SCCA ProSolo L1 Champion

Alot of responses on this thread make reference to how this decision indicates a lack of priority for the Pro Solo program.   IMO that is not the case at all.  The decision indicates the desire to keep fairness in the National Championship and underscores its importance.  If 250 competitors get a crack at the courses on Sat and Sun and the other 900 competitors do not, then an unfair advantage has been given to the Pro Solo Finale competitors.

This was clearly a very difficult decision and it hurts alot of Pro Solo supporters.  But the National Championship is still the priority by some arguable degree.  This decision preserves the integrity of the SCCA Solo National Championship.

Jim

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Jim

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." -Groucho Marx

Jim G:

Alot of responses on this thread make reference to how this decision indicates a lack of priority for the Pro Solo program.   IMO that is not the case at all.  The decision indicates the desire to keep fairness in the National Championship and underscores its importance.  If 250 competitors get a crack at the courses on Sat and Sun and the other 900 competitors do not, then an unfair advantage has been given to the Pro Solo Finale competitors.

This was clearly a very difficult decision and it hurts alot of Pro Solo supporters.  But the National Championship is still the priority by some arguable degree.  This decision preserves the integrity of the SCCA Solo National Championship.

Jim

All the local guys have already been on the surface and will get more chances before natls. If it were an issue of surface advantage then the local clubs should not be on there before natls.

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Jason Isley
2005-2006-2007-2008 B Stock National Champion

Jim G wrote the following post at 05/12/2006 6:39 PM:
Alot of responses on this thread make reference to how this decision indicates a lack of priority for the Pro Solo program.   IMO that is not the case at all.  The decision indicates the desire to keep fairness in the National Championship and underscore's its importance.  If 250 competitors get a crack at the courses on Sat and Sun and the other 900 competitors do not, then an unfair advantage has been given to the Pro Solo Finale competitors.

That is the most laughable thing I've heard in support of the decision yet. #1, I hope you meant 250 competitors get crack at the surface, as we obviously don't run the same course. #2, I have never run a warmup, and I know plenty of others who haven't. It's not required. #3, Many people still will not be able to do the warmup for various reasons, not even considering the people who just don't care about doing the warmup, or the people who live close enough to easily do the MidDivs.

This decision preserves the integrity of the SCCA Solo National Championship.

There is no "integrity." Not when course workers still misreport cones, allowing those less deserving of trophies to be awarded them. Not when 10 people in the entire heat are the only ones who get a dry run on the first day of competition. Not when third runs are delayed until the following morning. No, I'm sorry, but a practice that some people can make and others can't is the least of the things that can affect the "integrity" of a National Championship.

Honestly, my beef is more with the fact that this was NOT MENTIONED until today. If this had been the case from day one of the season, it would not be an issue for me, or for many of the others who are not happy with the situation. That is what shows a complete disregard for the ProSolo series and competitors, the fact that for some reason, we are the ones who can be jerked around. If the schedule had initially showed this as the case, then so be it. We make our schedules accordingly. But many (most?) of us have now made our schedules, and they can not be changed lightly.

Karen

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Karen Kraus
2005 SCCA SEDiv FS Champion
2007 SCCA DSL National Champion
2008 SCCA ProSolo L1 Champion

RX7 KLR:

All the local guys have already been on the surface and will get more chances before natls. If it were an issue of surface advantage then the local clubs should not be on there before natls.

Although it's a long trip for a lot of people, those events are open to everyone.  Would it be better to exclude everyone except the 250 Finale competitors from the surface?  Or exclude everyone and put the Finale after nationals?

I think this decision is coming too late, way too late, but the desicion itself is the correct one and the most fair for everyone running nationals.

Dave G.

I feel sorry for anyone who has already done two ProSolos, but cannot make the Finale now. 

 

I reserve the right to piss and moan, even if there is no "good " solution. 

You know, according to the "reasoning" that is being given here, I guess the answer to why I've sucked at Nationals and why I don't do as well as I think I should at any National event is simply because I'm not able to do the warmups or practice days before any of those events.

Damn. If only I'd known it just required another $30 entry fee and some more tire scrubbed off onto the pavement, I'd have a room full of trophies.

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Karen Kraus
2005 SCCA SEDiv FS Champion
2007 SCCA DSL National Champion
2008 SCCA ProSolo L1 Champion

CamaroFS34:

You know, according to the "reasoning" that is being given here, I guess the answer to why I've sucked at Nationals and why I don't do as well as I think I should at any National event is simply because I'm not able to do the warmups or practice days before any of those events.

Damn. If only I'd known it just required another $30 entry fee and some more tire scrubbed off onto the pavement, I'd have a room full of trophies.

Oh common Karen, do you really think it doesn't help at all to run on the surface, set up your car, etc... ahead of time??  I know it does.  I do it every year, and yes at the warm-up.

Like I said though, the decision is coming way too late.  I certainly understand why your upset about it.  I would be too.  I doubt everyone would be so up in arms about this if it had come out last winter sometime.

Dave G.

I run so many different surfaces in a year, no, I don't think it matters that much. I'm being honest. Of course, my car is an obselete dumb-mestic dinosaur, where car setup involves slapping on a set of adjustable shocks and a "big" front swaybar, then laughing hysterically over the pitifully miniscule amount of negative camber you can get.

Why should the surface differences (if any? it's likely to be a lot more like most regional surfaces than Forbes Field ever was) matter any more than the course differences? You only get 3 shots at each course anyway.

It's one of the reasons why I personally hold the ProSolo Finale in a higher regard than the National Championships. You have to be consistently good to earn the ProSolo Championship. You can't just win on a fluke run. The National Championships aren't really that much more than a glorified National Tour with more parties. The first couple of years I was out there, it was really close to overwhelming, but now that the novelty is wearing off.... and the bad taste I still have in my mouth after last year, I just don't see why the National Championships should be more special than the ProSolo Series, beyond the fact that everyone says it "should" be. I don't know if that makes any sense, but when you can have a National Championship jacket simply by virtue of choosing a lower number than your competitors or by running against literally no competition, how does that make it the "pinnacle of autocrossing"?

And, like I said earlier, yes, my biggest beef is with the timing of the announcement. 3.5 months into the season, 4 months away from the event -- literally halfway into the season -- is waaaaay too late.

Karen

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Karen Kraus
2005 SCCA SEDiv FS Champion
2007 SCCA DSL National Champion
2008 SCCA ProSolo L1 Champion

I was one of the high # CS guys, so I understand that part, that's for sure.  My co-driver was sitting in the car getting ready to go out when the rain came down.  I agree, that experience tarnished the nationals experience a bit for me too and I was really disappointed to see it moved even later in Sept. when it's even more likely to rain.

I still disagree on the setup comments though.  I've run on the new site and it's not like most asphalt I've run on before, except for possibly Arrowhead in KC.  Not typical at all.  It's not just setting up the car, but setting up the driver too.

Dave G.

Karen,
Yes I did mean surface and not courses.

And I stand by my statements.   Running on the surface ahead of time is a huge advantage.  I doubt there are many successful drivers who think otherwise. 

And if you don't think the event has integrity, why bother driving all that way?

Jim

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Jim

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." -Groucho Marx

Seems this could have also been solved by running the practice event on Wednesday before the ProSolo (yes, I know that is as absurd as changing the event date half way through the season).

As for the people that *need* the practice event so they can be competitive, pulllezzzeee, my guess is you aren't in contention for first anyhow.

The people that really want the tuning time can and will get it at other events held at the site.

Scott "not an SCCA member anymore, and liking that decision more every day"

I can only assume that this is an attempt to kill the ProSolo series.  Just like TV networks bounce shows around and then cancel them because of low audience numbers.

 

I also agree that this shows a complete lack of respect for the ProSolo community  - this is in essence a slap in the face, connfirmation that one is simply irrelevant.

 

I was unable to put together the holiday schedule to get me to the requisite events, so I was forved to give up on the ProSolo series this year.  I would almost certainly not be able to move my time around to get the additional day at this late juncture - if I had done the ProSolo this year I would be seething over this, how much more irrelevant can you make a person feel ?

 

When one considers what goes into making it to the ProSolo finale - the time, the cost, the effort - this is quite simply an insult born of high-handed arrogance.

The sad part is that this will certainly make me reconsider my plans for next season vis a vis ProSolo, and that plays right into the hands of those who apparently wish to terminate the series. 

 

Damn, and I only just got started :-)

 

Charles

20 ESP

73celica:

Seems this could have also been solved by running the practice event on Wednesday before the ProSolo (yes, I know that is as absurd as changing the event date half way through the season). As for the people that *need* the practice event so they can be competitive, pulllezzzeee, my guess is you aren't in contention for first anyhow. The people that really want the tuning time can and will get it at other events held at the site. Scott "not an SCCA member anymore, and liking that decision more every day"

 

Absolutely - if you're not at the top of your game by the end of September, one practice event isn't going to change anything.

 

It does however allow those Nats competitors with new tyres to scrub them in ?  Perhaps there are tyre scrubbers that feel they are more inportant than ProSolo ?

 

P.S.  I truly hate the default setup of the new posting form.

Jim G:

Karen,
Yes I did mean surface and not courses.

And I stand by my statements.   Running on the surface ahead of time is a huge advantage.  I doubt there are many successful drivers who think otherwise. 

And if you don't think the event has integrity, why bother driving all that way?

Jim

How many people will be able to partake in the warmups? Will the 900 others that aren't in the ProSolo have fair access? Or will it be the 1st 250 like in years past? So that leaves another 650 (1/2) of the National Competitors that STILL do not have a way to 'try' the surface.

So saying this is the "fair" solution is only "fair" to those other 250ish people that get in to the warmups.

--kC

 

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#95 STS.