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One more race and I'll have my quals for my national license.  I plan to transition from Spec Miata to a T1 Corvette and run at the national level.  I'm looking for advice/info on the cost of running a C5 Z06.  Any info would help:  cost for a race, season, whatever.  I'm putting a budget together and any info would be welcome.

 

Thanks!

 

Ralph

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Ralf Racing, Inc.
www.ralfracing.com
Leukemia and Lymphoma Society Partner
Car #25 Spec Miata SCCA - Racing in the Mid Atlantic Road Race Serries (MARRS) 2008
2006 Z06 Corvette for more fun...

Blitz:

One more race and I'll have my quals for my national license.  I plan to transition from Spec Miata to a T1 Corvette and run at the national level.  I'm looking for advice/info on the cost of running a C5 Z06.  Any info would help:  cost for a race, season, whatever.  I'm putting a budget together and any info would be welcome.

 

Thanks!

 

Ralph

Lots of money!

If you want to be competative, you will need many sets of tires over the course of the season. Probably a minimum of one set of stickers (Hoosier A6 is the fast set-up at this point in T1, running 295/35-17 fronts and 315/35-17 rears, or 315s all around) per weekend.  About $1235 per set.

Putting that aside, just to keep these cars running, takes alot more PM than it used to, since the current generation of tires generate so much grip, and all of that load just tears the suspension up over time.

Tie rod ends: 2-4 sets per season

Hub/bearing assemblies: 2-4 sets per season

Front brake rotors: Countless sets! Depends on the track. One set per session at Road America.  One set per weekend at others.

Front brake pads: See front rotors

Front brake calipers: 2-3 sets per season (they spread, and than you start destroying front pads with really bad un-even wear)

Rear brake pads and rotors: Last a long time, but the brake pedal gets low with just a little bit of rear wear, making heel and toeing a bit tougher if you are trying to brake late.

Gas: Lots of 100 octane unleaded at elevated costs. Figure on burning gas at a rate of 5 to 5.5mpg.  Sunoco GT100 at Road America was $8.40/gal at June Sprints.

Power Steering Pump and Rack: Once your new OEM rack and/or pump that came with your car craps out (they last a good long time- but will eventually fail), you are screwed.  GM only services these with rebuilt units that only last a season if you are LUCKY!  Pain in the butt to replace!

Driveline: Some people will replace engines every other seaon (about $5300 for a long-block from Superior Chevy), along with trans, and torque tube.  Torque tubes with integral driveshaft will eventually fail if your car is raced hard and frequently for more than two seasons. Nylon biscuits at ends of driveshaft disintegrate over time. Trans will start having problems going into a specific gear (always seems to be 2nd for me) after a couple of seasons.  Get a new one, and turn your old one is as a core before you grenade it! Replace your clutch while any of this is all apart, because it's alot of labor to get at the clutch.

Lots of other things.  Costs per season will depend on how many sets of tires you buy, and how pro-active you are with replacing parts that require normal PM, or if you wait for a part to fail (Which could cost you more if it fails badly!).

Good news: used body parts are cheap on e-bay!

If you don't have a parts deal with your local GM dealeship, than give Jeff Kopp at Superior Chevrolet in Kansas a call.  They will sell you parts at the best prices in the country! 800-509-2881

 Good luck!

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Jason Berkeley
#57 T1 Corvette
BMG Management / Central Auto Body / Pabst

Budget 30k for a new fast Mazda, 50k for a new fast C5.Budget 2 more sets of tires per double weekend in the Vette.Consumables are about 5X more in the C5(not counting suspensions which are maybe double). Gas usage 2.5X more in Chevrolet. Are you 160lbs or less? If not, budget $100+ per lb to lose some weight in the Vette, big drivers run later model Mazdas without any weight penalties. Mazdas seem to need more dyno-time. Motor refresh costs are similar but labor is more for the Chevy, Clutch, gearbox and diff refresh costs are 2-3X more for chevy.Crash damage: bent Mazdas get their goodies transplanted into a new donor for 5-10K. I've seen guys on this board spend 20k+ repairing a Vette.Mazdas need more maintenance-type bodywork....for sure, but that's part of the deal in SM.

 

If budget is really a major consideration, and unless you've got some great T1 racing in your area, you would be nuts to ditch SM.Sorry guys. YMMV.

-CJ

   

Jason/CJ - thanks for the input!  Sounds costly!  How about the C6, I know tires will be a little more, but are they holding up any better on the other parts you mention?  I've crewed for Joe G. before, and, being a C6Z owner, I really like the vette.  I've used the Miata as a learning platform, and it was easy to get into starting out.  They're just are not fast enough...

 Are there any other big bore platforms that might be a little easier on the bank account that run T1?  I may have to break out the heavy sponsorship program to make this happen.

Ralph 

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Ralf Racing, Inc.
www.ralfracing.com
Leukemia and Lymphoma Society Partner
Car #25 Spec Miata SCCA - Racing in the Mid Atlantic Road Race Serries (MARRS) 2008
2006 Z06 Corvette for more fun...

Ralph,

 Although I do not race T-1 Corvette, I know why these guys do.....It's a CORVETTE.....and the competition factor only makes racing T-1 that much more attractive.

As far as a less expensive big-bore platform, take a look at the GTA class. It's a SCCA Regional class in many area's of the country including the MARRS area. A GTA racecar is a tube-frame chassis with a stockcar type body ( Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Fusion, ..etc). The have about 500hp engines. A front running car can be currently purchased for 20k-23k. Replacement parts are plentiful and the cars are very dependable as far as racecars are concerned. Did I mention...a new set of tires ( 4 ) is less than $600 a set, this includes mounting and balancing. Many GTA cars can be raced at National events in the GT1 class, although they will not compete with a top flight GT1 car they WILL beat the socks off most regional level GT1 cars and all T-1 cars....haha...I expect to hear from Ingle on that comment !  The downside to GTA is that the cars are not  as sexy as a Corvette. Once you get over that, you will find GTA is a FAST, fun, and competitive class. Oh, and some even have Lingenfelter prepared Corvette LS1 engines making about 490hp with factory fuel injection or a carbed version.   

A GTA car will not take you to the runoffs but you can attend the American Roadrace of Champions at Road Atlanta in November of each year. We expect 30-40 cars this year.

If you or anyone else cares to know more, just ask........but we better take it to the GT area of this website before we ruffle some feathers.

 

Thanks, Jeff - I will look into it.  I am leaning towoards the vette, however,  I like sexy!  I'm just wondering if the C6 is a better car...

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Ralf Racing, Inc.
www.ralfracing.com
Leukemia and Lymphoma Society Partner
Car #25 Spec Miata SCCA - Racing in the Mid Atlantic Road Race Serries (MARRS) 2008
2006 Z06 Corvette for more fun...

Blitz,

I believe that the C6 has the same issues with respect to hub/bearing assemblies (same part as C5), tie-rods, and brakes.

Maybe one of the C6 guys can speak to this from a more educated standpoint...

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Jason Berkeley
#57 T1 Corvette
BMG Management / Central Auto Body / Pabst

The cost of entry is slightly higher, but a Dodge Viper costs less to race than a Corvette in T1.  Brakes, rotors, calipers, engines, gearboxes, diffs, they all hold up to the abuse and require only normal service of fluid changes etc.

There is at least one T1 Dodge Viper for sale right now. 

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Stan Wilson #92 - Kumho Tires - NetEvidence - Pinnacle Steel - Lux Performance - Dodge Motorsports - Roe Racing
Wilson Racing, Inc.
855 York Road
Mt. Juliet TN 37122
www.wilsonracing.com
stan@wilsonracing.com

I'd wager to say being sheet metal the repair costs for a GTA car are going to be lower then a comparably wrecked Vette, just depends how good you are with metal work. GTA cars do offer a rather nice bang for the buck and I have seen some damned good racing between them. Vette's do take some work while Vipers just go without much but normal maintenance. Now Jeff I have to make this point.... if he gets a Vette he can STILL race at the ARRC with TCC. If he gets a Viper I'm pretty sure there is another class we can find a home for him. If I remember correctly when Johnny Miller had Joe Hooker's (now Butch Kummer's) GTA car he was 4ish seconds/lap slower then the real GT1's. But that was a few years ago, and I'm getting old and my memory is going.

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Lance Snyder
Atlanta Region F&C

Elaine Dickinson: You got a letter from headquarters this morning.
Ted Striker: What is it?
Elaine Dickinson: It's a big building where generals meet, but that's not important.

Ralph.....

while you may not think so;it seems to me that you've already made your mind up that you are racing a vette!  You know what...............good move!!!  You will love it!! Go buy a C5 Z06 RACECAR and have fun.  Sh*t breaks and its expensive to fix no matter what you run.  Some vettes have absolutely NO "problems" and it is just a matter of simple maintenance and replacing consumables.  SOME vettes have a mind of their own and it seems like something is always broken.  I know...........I owned one of those cars, and while everybody else was just cleaning their windshields, I was always fixing SOMETHING.  Believe me....it was no fun, and was expensive.  Mr. Ingle had a C5 that I think he raced for 7 years.  He very rarely had a problem.  So, what's he do....buys a brand spanking new C6 and has yet to go to a race without an issue (I mean if you can call blowing up a couple of engines and "issue")

Go get a C5, keep your fingers crossed and go have fun.  See you at the track.

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Bob Mayer#38
2008 SE DIV. BP National Champion

Not including the cost of the car, I basically budget $3000 every time I leave the house.  With fuel and the associated costs being higher, that number is probably closer to $3500.  That includes a new set of tires, brakes, rotors, etc for every national event.  If you want to run at the pointy end of the grid, you'll have to.

You can save that extra grand though and just run used tires to get familiar with the car and see if you like T1.  As a general rule, the LS6 and tranny is/are bulletproof.  Although there are folks out there detonating drivelines, I had very good luck with my old C5 and raced it for 8 years.  I never HAD to replace an engine, tranny or diff, but I did (in theory) to get more power and greater longevity.  The verdict is still out on that one though.  Jason already mentioned the issues with the PS rack.

I now own an 08 C6 and there have been some issues, not the least of which is the extra 250# given to the car.  I don't believe 30 extra HP is worth 250 lbs on the C6 platform.    The 2005-2007 C6s seem to have worked out all the reliability issues and may very well be the platform to have right now. 

I've had a chance to race different C5s, two Vipers and different C6s...and I'm still not convinced that the Viper is not the car to have.  It does everything well and is incredibly easy to go fast...right out of the box.  The initial cost is more, but theoretically, you'll spend less on parts, brakes, etc during the year.  They are a hoot to drive and ultra adjustable...if you're prepared for that.

Finally, the drivers in T1 (past and present) are some of the best in racing - Heinricy, Archer, White, Knupp, Croyle...and the list goes on.  Just about everyone is extremely experienced and supremely talented.  We race hard, but clean.  Bring your "B" game to a T1 National race and you have no shot at winning.  It's a steep learning curve (no pun intended) but is a great group to be around.  I have not regretted a single second of my time!  Welcome to T1!

 

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Chris W. Ingle
www.tracktapes.com
2008 White Z51 LS3 #7
2003, 2005-08 SEDIV T1 National Champion
Instructor: Chin/TracQuest, Car Guys, etc.
Sponsors: Hoosier, Phoenix, GM Perf, Carbotech, Hardbar, Coolshirt, BK Racing

I think you might be right, Bob.  I just want to research it a little more before I make a final decision.  I'm at a cross point and what decision I make will make or break me.

 

Some questions I'm asking myself are, what is the overall situation in the T1 class, is it competitive, what is the best car to run?  I know the Spec Miata, SM class, is very competitive with so many cars.  And I've learned allot driving them...  I'll just have to do my homework before I make up my mind...

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Ralf Racing, Inc.
www.ralfracing.com
Leukemia and Lymphoma Society Partner
Car #25 Spec Miata SCCA - Racing in the Mid Atlantic Road Race Serries (MARRS) 2008
2006 Z06 Corvette for more fun...

Chris - good stuff, and thanks for the insight.  I was VERY close to buying your C5, but I thought I was not ready yet and passed.  Now that I have a few regional races under my belt I think I'm ready to kick it up a notch.  I agree with you about the talent at the national level.  Hell, I would be happy to finish in the back of the pack and work my way up over the years.  I have no expectation of ruling the pole by any stretch of the imagination.  But it would be an honor to race with the best and learn all I can. 

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Ralf Racing, Inc.
www.ralfracing.com
Leukemia and Lymphoma Society Partner
Car #25 Spec Miata SCCA - Racing in the Mid Atlantic Road Race Serries (MARRS) 2008
2006 Z06 Corvette for more fun...