SCCAForums.com

01 FS Z28:

  Then the V710 came out and they ruled until the A6's debuted.  Now Kumho is at work on another tire (so we hear), and that might change again.  The difference here is neither Hoosier nor Kumho has taken their ball and gone home like Yokohama did, followed by BFG in the 90's. 

And I feel another major problem will come up with this war between the two : Your $1000.00 R-compound set will eventually last 4-5 events before going to thrash and many people won't afford the sport anymore.....

 

But this is another topic...

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Michel Levesque

1985 Porsche 944 - ES

Andy Hollis:

JerryLamb:

CHRISFP78:

Mo money works better. Neon example proves it. Money equals buzz.

 

 

If so, then why are more manufacturers putting up more money? 

They aren't.

More manufacturers are putting up the same money.  It puts more manufacturers on an equal footing in rewarding their drivers.  But it does nothing to incentivize a driver to switch brands if they are already "pot committed".

--Andy 

 

Sorry, that was a typo.  I was trying to say are not, but somehow dropped the not.   There is that early onset Alzheimers again. 

It's gigantic multi-national company budgeting that keeps the amounts the same IMO. If marketing poked accounting with a stick than the amounts could go up. SCCA should get out a stick of there own to poke with.

Chris 

01 FS Z28:

The difference here is neither Hoosier nor Kumho has taken their ball and gone home like Yokohama did, followed by BFG in the 90's. 

As soon as Yokohama and BFG had built their brand, secured oem contracts and generally grown their distribution (read revenues), they no longer needed to mess around with a bunch of parking lot racers...which will be repeated with Kumho, within a few years, as well. Hoosier, on the other hand, is a throwback, parochial company that will never play in the passenger/truck tire mainstream, so they're stuck with us forever...

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.

CHRISFP78:

It's gigantic multi-national company budgeting that keeps the amounts the same IMO. If marketing poked accounting with a stick than the amounts could go up. SCCA should get out a stick of there own to poke with.

Chris 

 

Are you a member of SCCA?  If so, you are SCCA.  Go for it.  You might get a good response.

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Marcus
ESP 89
FS 89 for this year
www.margravemotorsports.com

Andy Hollis:

01 FS Z28:

Funny how that works...  My perception of what sent BFG packing is that the G-force R1 sucked big time on a lot of cars, and but for a few gifted folks who helped develop the tire, driving in the cars that those tires were developed on, the results were sorely lacking. 

The G-Force was an afterthought.  They already gave up on Solo by then, and Herb and Dave had moved on.  The G-Force was a road race tire primarily and its application to Solo was a side effect.  I'm am amazed at how many contract drivers stuck with them through the "afterthought" period.

When BFG wanted to win at Solo, they did. 

--Andy

 

Fair enough...  Clearly BFG was a force, whatever was happening behind the scenes obviously wasn't something I was privy to.  From the outside, the G-force showed up, sucked and BFG was gone.  Have no reason to doubt Andy's comments on the matter.

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Sam Strano
Owner--Strano Performance Parts
800-729-1831

michel944:

And I feel another major problem will come up with this war between the two : Your $1000.00 R-compound set will eventually last 4-5 events before going to thrash and many people won't afford the sport anymore.....

4-5 events?  What a joke.  I haven't been at this that long but I remember the A3S03s being sticky for about, I dunno, three events.  

I just did 12 runs at a test and tune on V710s that had been used at 10 events the prior season.  They were still amazingly sticky.  We've used V710s to over 100 runs.  This whole "R-comps wear out in 5 events" nonsense has to stop being passed around from noob to noob. 

 

 

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John Vitamvas
Overweight, one-wheel drive tire-eater

I usually give hoosier 12-20 runs fto stick really well. The 710s seem to last about 25 fast runs. The hoosier falls off quicker from there on out.

Even the kart tires I'm running are only fast for 20-25 runs :)  I'm looking into some that should be fast for 10-12 runs next ;) 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)

John, I didn't say they last only 4-5 events NOW but if the tire suppliers go at it too heavily to have the fastest tire, they won't last long for sure !!!! The more the tires will grip, the more they will wear out ! I know some guys back home who sell race tires and test them all, so I'm talking about this with some facts behind me. I hope you don't think I'm a noob because you don't know who you're talking to.....yet ! I raced and autocrossed for 20 years and won countless autocross and Formula Ford championships before retiring, but I'm coming back this year and if you enter the Devens tour you'll meet me there.....

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Michel Levesque

1985 Porsche 944 - ES

michel944:

John, I didn't say they last only 4-5 events NOW but if the tire suppliers go at it too heavily to have the fastest tire, they won't last long for sure !!!! The more the tires will grip, the more they will wear out !

This assumes no advancement in tire compounding technology.  As compounding continues to develop, I expect we'll see tires that grip better and better...or tires that grip the same and last longer...or a little bit of both.  Judging tire wear on future products based on today's knowledge is shortsighted.

I've heard the "one-run tire" fear for years and it still hasn't happened.  And it is well within the capability of a tire manufacturer to build such a tire. 

--Andy

 

Andy Hollis:

I've heard the "one-run tire" fear for years and it still hasn't happened.  And it is well within the capability of a tire manufacturer to build such a tire. 

--Andy 

Apparently David found some Three-Run tires for his kart. Not that it's a "fear" of mine.  

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Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio.

modernbeat:

Apparently David found some Three-Run tires for his kart. Not that it's a "fear" of mine.  

"David run" |= "normal person's run" 

--Andy

 

We could run the F1 grooved Bridgestones. One warmup lap, one qualifying lap, and then they are slower.

Dick

I like ya, Dave, but I think you're nuts.  :)  I can't speak for the Hoosiers, but the V710s seem to stick equally well up to about 50 runs and they are supremely tolerant of heat cycles. 

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John Vitamvas
Overweight, one-wheel drive tire-eater

michel944:

John, I didn't say they last only 4-5 events NOW but if the tire suppliers go at it too heavily to have the fastest tire, they won't last long for sure !!!! The more the tires will grip, the more they will wear out ! I know some guys back home who sell race tires and test them all, so I'm talking about this with some facts behind me. I hope you don't think I'm a noob because you don't know who you're talking to.....yet ! I raced and autocrossed for 20 years and won countless autocross and Formula Ford championships before retiring, but I'm coming back this year and if you enter the Devens tour you'll meet me there.....

I didn't mean to imply you were a noob.  This argument is just a pet peeve of mine and seems to get bandied about every now and then by the "street tires in stock" crowd.  It's just not true, at least not yet.

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John Vitamvas
Overweight, one-wheel drive tire-eater

John V:

I didn't mean to imply you were a noob.  This argument is just a pet peeve of mine and seems to get bandied about every now and then by the "street tires in stock" crowd.  It's just not true, at least not yet.

No problem John.   But if I believe my Hoosier supplier and compare with how long your Kuhmo's last, you're doing at least 50% more runs out of your tires. Knowing that the Boxster doesn't have negative camber at the front that is impressive !!!

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Michel Levesque

1985 Porsche 944 - ES

That's putting it nicely ;)

I am about as hard on tires as anyone I know. That being said the kart "tyres" I found I think will be fast for about 12 runs as opposed to the 20-25 fast runs I'm getting now. :)

:)

John V:

I like ya, Dave, but I think you're nuts.  :)  I can't speak for the Hoosiers, but the V710s seem to stick equally well up to about 50 runs and they are supremely tolerant of heat cycles. 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)

IF I can get them, I'll have brand new rear tires for each day of competition in Topeka :)

modernbeat:

Andy Hollis:

I've heard the "one-run tire" fear for years and it still hasn't happened.  And it is well within the capability of a tire manufacturer to build such a tire. 

--Andy 

Apparently David found some Three-Run tires for his kart. Not that it's a "fear" of mine.  

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)

The argument of dilution of competition has merit.   The dillution or concentration of contingency money, however, is and will always be controlled by the companies providing the contingency.  What classes, what participation minimums, how deep to pay, how much to pay various finishing positions, etc. are all at their discretion. 

 

Your assumption that they would simply pay out more per position and keep all other peramters the same if the SCCA pared back the number of classes may or may not be right. 

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Once you go Mac, you never go back!