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Steve Hoelscher:

And one other thing to note; no 1.6 liter, turbo/supercharged, 1700 lbs XP car is going to make the corner exit torque that Stan's Vette does. 

Who cares if both cars can obtain the .7-.8G max attainable forward acceleration?

 

And a mid engined 2L FI'd engine is still sub 1875 lbs with ABS.  You can start getting some good torque out of a turbo'd 2L... easily in excess of 350 lb-ft.  Or Andy's RX7 ends up sub 2000 lbs.  I bet it's making near Stan's torque...  or at least could be with some more $$ and knowledge thrown at it.
 

 

 

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

Sorry, but I only have about 300 ft-lbs.   I doubt that is anywhere near what Stan makes.  It does help that I mulitply that with about 9.6 of gearing.

To match my car's torque/weight in a 1700lb XP car (assuming it has gearing and rpm range like I do), it would only need about 200 ft-lbs.  Somehow I don't think that would be very difficult.

 -Andy M.

boxboy:

Sorry, but I only have about 300 ft-lbs.   I doubt that is anywhere near what Stan makes.  It does help that I mulitply that with about 9.6 of gearing.

To match my car's torque/weight in a 1700lb XP car (assuming it has gearing and rpm range like I do), it would only need about 200 ft-lbs.  Somehow I don't think that would be very difficult.

 -Andy M.

 

I was figuring with a rotary, you'd have a good bit of gear multiplication vs. Stan's V8, although the automatic may offset that a bit.  Either way, I think I'd give up 5-10% of an acceleration advantage to be almost a FOOT narrower.

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

400ft/lbs at the wheels starting around 3000rpm.  But dumbed down by the automatics 6.68 gearing (that's 87mph in 2nd gear) - That will be improved for this season.  Those quick with math will see Andy puts more torque to wheels currently  And he's in the 'weak' SM2 car - no wonder they are faster

Ouch...  7.52 for gearing for our XP car.  Andy has 50% more torque to the ground than we do in 2nd.

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

Are there any torque numbers on the 3 rotor?

I can easily make 200 ft lbs of torque Normally aspirated in the 914. If I sell a kidney.  car was 1743 pounds @ Houston tour last year.  69.5 inches wide.

Putting it down to the ground is a whole nuther bag of worms.

This is a very interesting thread.

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Want to go faster, please send money.

How is the 914 on brand new tires? You and Hassan looked like it wasn't sticking like a car that light should.....but for a 914 it had good squirt :)

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

I'm still mad at Andy for saying my Spyder has no power!!!!   I will have you know I have 50% more than stock...which has no power....so 150% of nothing is....ummm...ok, bad argument.   But I DO have VVT!!  

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Tracy Ramsey
Team Blenderblaster
2000 MR2 DP Spyder

129STS:

Ouch...  7.52 for gearing for our XP car.  Andy has 50% more torque to the ground than we do in 2nd.

And you were only 0.5 off him scratch on the west course :)

Given your power output (not engine size), you could probably be 300# lighter. Or, given your current weight, you could probably have 150-200whp more. Andy's probably 2+ years ahead in chassis development as well.

Like you said, it gets scary with that much room. It's hard to think a CP car would have that much to gain. You were already a full second ahead of them on the west course, and Bob was more than a second ahead on the east. I'd expect you'd need to squeeze at least 2 seconds more (maybe closer to 3) out of a CP car to run with XP when it matures. I think that's a stretch.

CSP --> SM2 might be a similar transition as DP --> XP. West course shows a 2.1 second difference CSP --> SM2  (46.7 to 44.6). DP (45.9) less 2.1 is a 43.8, 0.8 faster than SM2, 0.4 slower than BM. I think if you took 500# out of Andy's car he'd make that up. CP ran a 46.1, they need 2.3 seconds just to be in the hunt.

Andy's probably close. Somewhere between EM and BM is where XP might end up. All of a sudden 2500# RX7s aren't that scary. :)

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Randy Noll

Joe_914:

Are there any torque numbers on the 3 rotor?

I can easily make 200 ft lbs of torque Normally aspirated in the 914. If I sell a kidney.  car was 1743 pounds @ Houston tour last year.  69.5 inches wide.

Putting it down to the ground is a whole nuther bag of worms.

This is a very interesting thread.

The one dyno I've see of Erik and Beth's 3-rotor has about 385 torque (I'm sure it can make more than that if they want).  Their gearing is a little different than mine since he doesn't want to rev as high, but it is a still respectable 8.7 or so.   Do the math on that and you can see why their car is so fast on acceleration.  How much of that you can actually use at HPT plus the fact their car weighs a couple hundred pounds more keeps things interesting.

-Andy M.

 

Davebs14:

How is the 914 on brand new tires? You and Hassan looked like it wasn't sticking like a car that light should.....but for a 914 it had good squirt :)

 

What were were running into is too much grip. and twisting the chassis like a leaf spring.   I have a new chassis with full cage, now the object is to make it light enough. (insert sawz-all smiley)  Those were brand new tires at Houston we scrubbed the "new" off them before we arrived.   New car will look a lot more like a race car than something I drive around town.  If it doesn't make the car go faster it won't be on the car.

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Want to go faster, please send money.

Joe_914:

Davebs14:

How is the 914 on brand new tires? You and Hassan looked like it wasn't sticking like a car that light should.....but for a 914 it had good squirt :)

 

What were were running into is too much grip. and twisting the chassis like a leaf spring.   I have a new chassis with full cage, now the object is to make it light enough. (insert sawz-all smiley)  Those were brand new tires at Houston we scrubbed the "new" off them before we arrived.   New car will look a lot more like a race car than something I drive around town.  If it doesn't make the car go faster it won't be on the car.

 

Joe, is there a chance we'll get to see the 914 at any East coast National events this year?  Or Nationals?  We need more people in XP at the Dixie Tour!

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

You should host a Pro at Atlanta Motor Speedway :)   he he he   I couldn't resist.

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

Davebs14:

You should host a Pro at Atlanta Motor Speedway :)   he he he   I couldn't resist.

Nah, we'll just run that pseudo-ProSolo thing there this year.
 

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

Mirror cross????

Will it count and when is it? I wanna go! :) 

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

Davebs14:

Mirror cross????

Will it count and when is it? I wanna go! :) 

 

Weekend before the Atlanta Tour.  Both at AMS. 

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Jesse
-2002-2006 E-stock 93 MR2 (sold)
-2007-2008 XP Spyder

Joe_914:

What were were running into is too much grip. and twisting the chassis like a leaf spring.   I have a new chassis with full cage, now the object is to make it light enough. (insert sawz-all smiley) 

Even without a cage and on 3 year old Hoosier S05s we're making so much grip that our BMW is bicycling a bit. Time for stiffer spring rates again. This car doesn't twist much as-is, but its still got tons of steel bodywork and glass that can help drop more weight, so we are adding a "minimalist cage". This way we can do open track and time trial events with it as well.

Like the Viper referenced by the original post, this car is still probably too big and too heavy for XP, but the sound, feel and effortless acceleration from an LS1 V8 are so intoxicating...

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Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com - www.ast-usa.com
'93 E36-LS1 (XP), '97 BMW M3 (so long STU!), '91 318is (STS)