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I don't think this weekend's results can be used reasonably to argue against our current PAX factors.  The course was really unusual, with very narrow and technical sections that allowed maybe a couple inches of wiggle room for different lines, then opened onto huge straights... which followed very slow corners.  On Sunday, the straights were basically uphill sections too.

In my opinion, this biased the courses toward (a) small cars, (b) R compounds and slicks and (c) high power-to-weight ratio cars.

Mike

^yeah, what he said

Add in the normal time to run the course in on Saturday, followed by a complete repeat performance on Sunday, because of the overnight rain, and there was even more than the normal bias to favoring the later run groups, as well. RG4 had a much faster course than anyone else, for sure.

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.

Weather issues  are important factors. But why isn't anypne complaining about ASP Pax

Top 20 from SD and Dixie NTs and STS and STS2 made it to top 20 Pax at Dixie

SD               Dixie

5 ASP          3 ASP
5 CSP          2 STS
2 SM2          2 FS
2 SS            2 SS
1 CS            2 GS
1 BSP          2 FM
1 DM            1 CS
1 EM            1 DS
1 F125          1 SM
1 FM            1 SM2
                    1 STS2
 

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Tim R
#80 2006 Honda S2000

I'm going to have to agree with Steve on this one.

I've been around a while, have given Nat champs in classes I have run in a run for their money when they have run West coast events, but don't consider myself a top level driver... maybe one step under.  I've run Mikes car (last year at the tour) and I can't touch him in his car.  I've run several of the STS cars out here, I would not have been able to beat Jason in his car. 

My paxed results:

64 (6) Craig Naylor 2002 Honda S2000 Kumho AS (0.842) 99.826 118.558 5.458

are right in the ball park of theirs.  I on the other hand have a total of 8 events in this car (this was the second event on R compounds), it is NOT preped for the class (it does have shocks, but we have no idea what to set them to).  AND all runs were in the (albeit drying) wet.

If I can pax in an unpreped car, that I don't have much experience in, ahead of guys with fully preped cars, that they have honed their skills in, AND I'm driving in the wet....  the pax is off. 

Craig 

61 (1) Michael Heinitz 1995 Mazda Miata Bridgestone STS2 (0.818) 99.678 121.856 5.310
62 (1) Gregory Peng 2004 Subaru WRX Yokohama STX (0.820) 99.714 121.602 5.346
82 (1) Jason Flores 1989 Honda Civic Bridgestone STS (0.816) 100.392 123.030 6.024

 

STS2, STX, and STS are some pretty tough paxes.

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Dr. Conemangler

1) Pax is for giggles and grins

2) I have never heard of those 3 guys in STS2,STX,STS (ok I live 2800 miles away)

3) Maybe you should try and get a test with a F1 team

4) The ASP pax should be like .78 IMHO

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Trying to get faster

SteveEkstrand:

Unless there is rain across the field STS will not make an appearance near the top at any national event this year.

Not that I don't happen to agree with some your conclusions, but here's proof that even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile:

STS winner @ Dixie Tour "makes an appearance near the top" on Pax 

And if that Strano clown wasn't around, the squirrel would have found even more nuts... 

--Andy

PS: In this case, STS ran in the best heat rather than the worst. 

 

Andy-

I went and looked at the Dixie results.  I guess I mistakenly assumed it had been wet all day Sat there and thus dismissed the STS showing. 

Nice job!!!  I thought I knew what guys like you and Mike King were capable of, but man!!!  Maybe I've got to re-evaluate STS.

We all have to get mentally prepared for the .830 Rick is going to stick us with next year! 
 

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Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

rtp.rick:

With regard to CSP in your area.  Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that.  It looks like CSP should be factored substantially faster than BSP??

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

 

Really? Well as a first response, I'd have to say that other than a few notable exceptions, the west coast has, and has had for many years the best CSP drivers in the country.  There is a long tradition of national champs. and top drivers in CSP from our neck of the woods: Endicott, Berry, Ankeny, Palmquist, Ellam, Doganis, Bauer, Peters, Gould, Daniels, Frasier, Dainiels, Kubo, and of course Silvennoinen, just to mention a few.  Why would it be such a surprise that @ west coast Tours CSP would do well?

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Bill Schenker
CalClub & S.D.R. #14 CSP 10AE Miata

actor:

Endicott, Berry, Ankeny, Palmquist, Doganis, Bauer, Peters, Daniels, Frasier, Dainiels, Kubo, and of course Silvennoinen...

You're too modest! ... You left out "Schneker"! 

Jim  

 

 

 

SteveEkstrand:

Andy-

I went and looked at the Dixie results.  I guess I mistakenly assumed it had been wet all day Sat there and thus dismissed the STS showing. 

Only the first heat on Saturday and a little bit of the second heat had some dampness.  And Sunday morning was chilly for first heat.  Everything else had gorgeous weather.  STS ran 5th heat so we had the best conditions.  I did ok, but I'm sure I was just the "least rusty" of the bunch. 

We all have to get mentally prepared for the .830 Rick is going to stick us with next year! 
 

Nah, I think we just need to get Rick a long-term co-drive in an ST car so he knows what we are working with.  It's not just "less stick".   It's a whole 'nuther level of "less tire".

 

--Andy 

I tried driving a C5 Corvette on "run flats" this weekend.  I know all about having "NO tire".

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

rtp.rick:

I tried driving a C5 Corvette on "run flats" this weekend.  I know all about having "NO tire".

How well did you score on the PAX index?

<Running, ducking, ....> 

--Andy

 

Yep. Tight corners followed by long straights, some uphill favor cars with torque. Tight gates/slaloms favor the skinnier cars. The Elise was sort of in between. A little easier to get through the gates than a Viper/Vette, but still lacking sheer grunt (but getting there).  We were wondering what it would take to shoehorn that Viper engine into the Elise.  :)

msimanyi:

I don't think this weekend's results can be used reasonably to argue against our current PAX factors.  The course was really unusual, with very narrow and technical sections that allowed maybe a couple inches of wiggle room for different lines, then opened onto huge straights... which followed very slow corners.  On Sunday, the straights were basically uphill sections too.

In my opinion, this biased the courses toward (a) small cars, (b) R compounds and slicks and (c) high power-to-weight ratio cars.

Mike

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2006 Noble M400 (E-Mod?)
CHASECAM the global leader in motorsport video acqusition. We innovate, not copy or import. Official supplier to SCCA Pro Racing. Sponsor for SCCA ProSolo. Supplier to MazdaSpeed, V8Supercars, etc.

The courses this weekend were great if you did not have a lot of power...   I could not put down any power in my Sprite and all the people with higher HP I talked with were having the same problem.  The top three cars according to PAX are low HP cars....  

 Also there was only one area were you could remotly use any power each day on each course (at least in my car)...   I think it favored good speed maintenance cars, like CS, CSP, CM ect....   Not taking anything away from Scott, Bill or Ryan (they drove their a$$es off for sure).

Jeff Kiesel

Andy Hollis:

rtp.rick:

I tried driving a C5 Corvette on "run flats" this weekend.  I know all about having "NO tire".

How well did you score on the PAX index?

<Running, ducking, ....> 

--Andy

Not real good in an ASP classed car.  I figure I was about nine seconds back.  Thank heaven it was a school.  :-)

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

fd_racer:

The courses this weekend were great if you did not have a lot of power...   I could not put down any power in my Sprite and all the people with higher HP I talked with were having the same problem.  The top three cars according to PAX are low HP cars....  

 Also there was only one area were you could remotly use any power each day on each course (at least in my car)...   I think it favored good speed maintenance cars, like CS, CSP, CM ect....   Not taking anything away from Scott, Bill or Ryan (they drove their a$$es off for sure).

Jeff Kiesel

Jeff, if you thought it was hard to hook up in RG4, you should have tried it earlier in the day...

Still, there is something entertaining about it...not fast, but entertaining...

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.

Driving first thing in the morning on Sat. and Sun. it occurred to me that, for some reason, the conditions seemed to change significantly (more than normal I thought) on both days but especially so on Sunday.

On Sunday, I knew beforehand that it was going to be a one run heat (for the 1st heat)....whoever did the best on the 3rd run was going to win for the day - a one-shot deal.  Think my raw time from 1st to 3rd runs on Sunday varied by about 4 seconds (usually within a second under normal conditions and provided my driving is in order).

 On the last run (I was 2nd driver also), there was still some wet patches on the tight "stuff"/boxes at the beginning of the course that surely carried over to the 2nd heat......but probably not the 3rd heat.......sun....quickly warming...

In fact it warmed up even more than Saturday as the day went on, and, I'm sure providing even more disparity in the results - PAX-wise.

 So, I would say there is little to compare outside of heats (and even then!) for PAX values from the SD NT.

 Your opinion may differ!

 Reijo

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AS, 03 S2000/CSP Miata
/Seal Beach, Calif.

mwood:

Jeff, if you thought it was hard to hook up in RG4, you should have tried it earlier in the day...

Still, there is something entertaining about it...not fast, but entertaining...

From what I have noticed the last run group at normal SD events is one of the slower ones...  The course gets more worn and there is way too much rubber shreds and rocks.  Optimum run group seems to be about 1/2 way through an event.  At least for my car thats how it goes, and several other SD PAX class drivers will confirm that as well.

 Jeff

Leslie is correct.

 I announced Heat 1 it was soaking wet. it got dryer for the second and dryer for 3rd runs. It got better everytime the group went out.

Run 1: all wet

Run 2: wet/dry spots

Run 3: dryer/wet spots

 People were leapfroging all over the place (Great fun for Announcing!) it was a 1 run event for most everyone in the first heat. The course was cone intesive with three pinch points, that meant for some folks they rolled the dice.  Lucky CSP and ASP weren't in the AM group you would have seen 10 second differences first to last run with National Level Driving.

 Boy I had fun with all you fine folks!!

Putting my thumb out now for next year. :-))

 Kevin "Hits the first cone on course" Dietz

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How to make your car faster.
1. Bigger Tires
2. Bigger Brakes
3. Bigger Engine
4. Or just give me the keys!

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff.......you just have to get used to driving "off-line"!    LOL

 Reijo

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AS, 03 S2000/CSP Miata
/Seal Beach, Calif.