SCCAForums.com

Attached are the PAX/RTP Index results for the San Diego National Tour.  I will post separate Saturday and Sunday results in subsequent posts.

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

Attached are PAX/RTP Index results for Saturday at the San Diego National Tour.  Sunday's results will be in the following post.

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

Attached are PAX/RTP Index results for Sunday at the San Diego National Tour.  Saturday's results are in the previous post.

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

Since, again, SCCA has chosen to make the class results difficult to find on their website, I have posted the PDF version here.

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

What were the conditions?  I am kind of surprised to see CS beat BS and AS and almost match SS.  I know Beutzer is Beutzer, but Isley isn't really a pushover.  What's the deal?

First heat Sunday was wet, and drying.  Second heat had some water left, but I don't think it affected times much.

Oops, forgot about late 4th heat saturday, the last dozen cars or so got soaked on their third runs.

---

Keith
'90 Miata with a really big roll bar

www.chaserace.com
www.tightntidyracing.com
www.vorschlag.com

61 (1) Michael Heinitz 1995 Mazda Miata Bridgestone STS2 (0.818) 99.678 121.856 5.310
62 (1) Gregory Peng 2004 Subaru WRX Yokohama STX (0.820) 99.714 121.602 5.346
82 (1) Jason Flores 1989 Honda Civic Bridgestone STS (0.816) 100.392 123.030 6.024

 

STS2, STX, and STS are some pretty tough paxes.

I guess we don't have those magic tires Ruth was counting on. 

---

Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

It's more likely there aren't any "magic" drivers or setups.  I think they must have all gone to CSP.  :-)   I would expect your ST guys will get better with time.  It looks as if the three mentioned have no "ST" Nationals experience.

I think you'd really have trouble blaming the index factors.  Your three examples would have to have a factor somewhere near a 5-year-old in a FJC kart.  More than one percent softer than H Stock.

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

I figured Ruth would say exactly that.  It doesn't explain the differential.  The STS/STS2/STX paxes are wrong.  You admitted your misunderstanding of the tire situation.  You do a good job at an impossible task in most cases, but the ST numbers simply aren't close.

 

Unless there is rain across the field STS will not make an appearance near the top at any national event this year.  Even if Buetzer drives in the class, or we turn it over to CSP drivers.    CSP got hit this year, we knew it would, expected it, probably needed much more.  The STS cars weren't topping the charts anywhere yet they got hit almost as much as CSP.   Why?  Because you misunderstood the tire situation?  Because of next years tires? 

 

Flores' performance wasn't only the 82nd best of the San Diego tour.  Heinitz and Peng may not go to nationals, but they aren't that far off the best in the country, they've taken in to the best who show up in the West and that's usually good enough to be deep in the Topeka woods.
 

---

Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

rtp.rick:

It's more likely there aren't any "magic" drivers or setups.  I think they must have all gone to CSP.  :-)   I would expect your ST guys will get better with time.  It looks as if the three mentioned have no "ST" Nationals experience.

 

I don't know how well he drove or if has drastically changed his set-up. But Kevin McCormick (finished 2nd in STS) finished 2nd at nationals last year in STS  (PAX'd 50th out of 1155) was 101st in PAX out of 261. I know that cannot be all index factor, but it is a proven driver in a proven car (presuming no major changes).

---

00' 328Ci
01' Tahoe LT
98' Camaro Z28 - dead
95' 325is - STX 182

Have you looked at their overall raw times?  They were all bottom half of the 261.  Well to be fair, Peng was 130th so a little better than bottom half.  Then Heinitz at 137th, Flores at 158th, and McCormick at 171st. 

---

Rob S.
116 FS 2008 Ford Mustang Bullitt

South Carolina Region

SteveEkstrand:

I figured Ruth would say exactly that.  It doesn't explain the differential.  The STS/STS2/STX paxes are wrong.  You admitted your misunderstanding of the tire situation.  You do a good job at an impossible task in most cases, but the ST numbers simply aren't close.

Unless there is rain across the field STS will not make an appearance near the top at any national event this year.  Even if Buetzer drives in the class, or we turn it over to CSP drivers.    CSP got hit this year, we knew it would, expected it, probably needed much more.  The STS cars weren't topping the charts anywhere yet they got hit almost as much as CSP.   Why?  Because you misunderstood the tire situation?  Because of next years tires? 

Flores' performance wasn't only the 82nd best of the San Diego tour.  Heinitz and Peng may not go to nationals, but they aren't that far off the best in the country, they've taken in to the best who show up in the West and that's usually good enough to be deep in the Topeka woods.

Not very hard to guess that I'd say something like that.  It's all true.  :-)

As far as the ST factors being wrong, I'd suggest that the folks in Atlanta or Milwaukee would disagree.  I admitted misunderstanding about when the new Bridgestone tire was to be intoduced.  That has little to do with the Index factors assigned.  Any possible difference would have been 2/10ths of a second, at most.  Not the four to six seconds we're talking about here.  I'd say you're choosing a very poor example as any kind of indicator.

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

And of the dozens of SCCA classes STS/STS2/STX are amongst the slowest classes.

---

Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

ccytrader:

Have you looked at their overall raw times?  They were all bottom half of the 261.  Then Heinitz at 137th, Flores at 158th, and McCormick at 171st. 

 

Ummm... they are 120hp economy cars on street tires. :)  What do you expect?

---

00' 328Ci
01' Tahoe LT
98' Camaro Z28 - dead
95' 325is - STX 182

Atlanta and Milwaukee?  You mean where they lack serious street prepared cars and drivers to make their pax results look like nationals?

 STS ran under perfect case conditions relative to the field at Nationals this year.  So, Frank must have been in the top 5 to justify that pax increase?  Hardly. 

 
I may not be the fastest STS driver in the country, but I know what the class is capable of and I can't come close to explaining why STS was one of the few classes to be targeted for the biggest change in index.
 

 

 

---

Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

As many have stated for a long time -- STS stood/stands for "Still Too Soft".  :-)

With regard to CSP in your area.  Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that.  It looks like CSP should be factored substantially faster than BSP??

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

Mooobunnny:

ccytrader:

Have you looked at their overall raw times? They were all bottom half of the 261. Then Heinitz at 137th, Flores at 158th, and McCormick at 171st.

 

Ummm... they are 120hp economy cars on street tires. :) What do you expect?

Haha I think I expect them to be a little faster.  Sure last year they showed up and picked up 107 spots or so from raw to pax and this year only picked up about 65 or so, smaller event this year too. 

---

Rob S.
116 FS 2008 Ford Mustang Bullitt

South Carolina Region

CSP is weak...  And that Berry guy in BSP is just a newb in a showroom special.

 :)

At SD, Fraser on Sat was amazing.   And Schenker on Sunday was a very stout performance, but let's keep that between you and I.  You know how Bill can get.  And Kid Buetzer had a few hundred people staring gap jawed at the course.  Its totally correct to see them on top of the heap. 

Those little 275 Hoosiers woke up some tired CSP Miata's that looked headed for DP when the NC's came out.  And they did strange things like make a Focus look scary though not as much this weekend. 

It might be that an NA/NB franken Miata on 275's or maybe bigger tires is the ultimate street prepared weapon for the modern autocross course as we move away from concrete and towards tighter elements on slippery surfaces.

And little 120hp econo boxes on 195 street tires are a lot faster than anybody would have thought, but keep it within reason.
 

---

Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

SteveEkstrand:

61 (1) Michael Heinitz 1995 Mazda Miata Bridgestone STS2 (0.818) 99.678 121.856 5.310
62 (1) Gregory Peng 2004 Subaru WRX Yokohama STX (0.820) 99.714 121.602 5.346
82 (1) Jason Flores 1989 Honda Civic Bridgestone STS (0.816) 100.392 123.030 6.024

 

STS2, STX, and STS are some pretty tough paxes.

I guess we don't have those magic tires Ruth was counting on. 

 

FWIW, I did leave a fair amount of time out there with a sloppy fast run on Saturday and blowing my fast run on Sunday.  However, even if I got those "perfect" runs in, I estimate that would've only been in the 30's or so.

 

-Greg 

STS ran in the wet on Sunday morning.  Buetzer did not. What do you expect when the final drivers of heat 4 on Saturday got rained on and the course was still wet on Sunday morning when the first group started?  You get PAX results that you can't compare!  You can only compare the ones that ran in similar conditions.  So comparing STS with CS or CSP just doesn't work for this event.

---

Leslie
SS Z06 Corvette (I'm back!)