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Could someone refresh me on what is the reason min weights in Prepared are without drivers? Is there some long time history behind this? I mean in just about every SCCA road racing class, the min weights are with drivers. In Solo2 Mod classes they're with drivers. Why not in P?

I allways found this strange, that in a class that has all kinds of weight penalties for mechanical allowances, excesses etc. a driver could in effect be penalized 100lbs+ for being overweight (say a 260lbs driver vs. a 160lbs one). That is HUUGE in say a 1500lbs EP car.

And yes, i'm 260lbs and i am beefed with this rule.

Sorry if i'm bringing up an old topic... Couldnt find anything in archives on here, so maybe it's time for this to be discussed again?

 

 

 

 

Howdy,

Its because the SEB doesn't like fat people.

Mark

Solution to problem :

1) gastric bypass

2) nutri-system

3) sell car---and go into a class like FS---big heavy car--weight of driver not as big of a factor

4) Be lucky you don't run F125

5) Stay right where you are, and have a built in excuse for getting smoked

6) Just be slow like me---(I weigh like 175, but each of my testicles adds about 10 lbs each, plus my balls always itch so much that I have to additionally wrap them in a couple extra acrylic socks, to wick away the moisture, as to help me cope with my problem of "itchy nuts"---SO in other words if my balls didn't itch I could then atleast ditch the extra socks.

7) Lose 6 lbs by driving naked----Also this plan saves on Hotels and Meals in Topeka, as you will probably be arrested for indecent exposure. (just hope the judge is a SCCA member, so he/she will let you get your runs in)

Whatever you do good luck to you-------

PS-- don't shave your nuts---it's not worth the weight savings, and it itches like a son-of-a-b-itch as it's growing back

go team itchy balls !

---

Trying to get faster

David Lehman:

Solution to problem :

...

7) Lose 6 lbs by driving naked----

Can't do it - you have to at least wear a helmet and close-toed shoes.

Ed "I'm 255# and should move to EP so I can bet the 260# guy" Locke

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Ed Locke
2006 CR-SCCA XP Champion (Hey! I showed up.)
#248 SM/XP/DP/GS/BS/etc.
At Track Graphics (http://www.attrackgraphics.com)
Skull Motorsports (http://www.skullmotorsports.com)

edlocke:

Ed "I'm 255# and should move to EP so I can bet the 260# guy" Locke

Just realized my fat-finger mistake.  (Did I say fat?)  That was "beat" the 260# guy, not bet.  Although if I could beat him, a bet wouldn't be out of the question...

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Ed Locke
2006 CR-SCCA XP Champion (Hey! I showed up.)
#248 SM/XP/DP/GS/BS/etc.
At Track Graphics (http://www.attrackgraphics.com)
Skull Motorsports (http://www.skullmotorsports.com)

LOL you guys are hilarious

In my opinion SCCA does not favor priviledge rich boys who can maintain healthy/afford to eat lunch while funding a racing hobby :)

lets keep the name calling to cars

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Ed
SM2 82

Lol... Friggin wise guys... You deserve a Molson for the replies. Come see us in Topeka paddocks. But you may also get whacked by an empty one.

How bout a serious answer now...

Howdy,

As you might imagine, its not the first time the question has come up.

The things on the side of weighing without driver are:

1) easier to deal with if there are codrivers / people hopping into a car to finish runs, etc.

2) less worries about whether the ballast was in the car for the lighter guy on all his runs.

3) less worries about ballast being secured improperly (since it doesn't need to be easily removeable)

There might be some others as well that I'm forgetting.

Mark

marka:

Howdy,

As you might imagine, its not the first time the question has come up.

The things on the side of weighing without driver are:

1) easier to deal with if there are codrivers / people hopping into a car to finish runs, etc.

2) less worries about whether the ballast was in the car for the lighter guy on all his runs.

3) less worries about ballast being secured improperly (since it doesn't need to be easily removeable)

There might be some others as well that I'm forgetting.

Mark

 

4) the scales dont read properly when the car being weighed has moving parts

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Ed
SM2 82

Ok thanks. Those are all excellent points, but are in reality event logistics issues. How are they handled in Mod?

My guess is the SEB hasn't gotten enough letters asking for it.

I've never had any issues with "moving parts" when getting weighed in my road race car- it's not hard to sit still for a couple seconds, especially after a 45 mile race.

The ballast concerns could be solved by a simple rule: no ballast adjustments during competition.  The heavy driver in a two car team will still run heavy, but if the co-driver is of similar size it won't be a big difference.  If you need to jump into someone else's car to finish your runs, just pick one with a smaller driver.

Justin

The ballast concerns could be solved by a simple rule: no ballast adjustments during competition.  The heavy driver in a two car team will still run heavy, but if the co-driver is of similar size it won't be a big difference.  If you need to jump into someone else's car to finish your runs, just pick one with a smaller driver.

At a couple SCCA endurance events that I was at the car is weighed once for each driver right after the car comes off the track.  It had to meet weight each time.

---

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John Coffey
http://www.betamotorsports.com

Wait a minute.....

  Street Mod 2 for my 914 is 2050 lbs  with driver?   Whoa wait a minute Where did I put those A6 's   

 

Oh sorry you said Modified.    Ok makes perfectly NO sense to me.

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Want to go faster, please send money.

The F125 Karts running in Solo II get weighed with the driver too.  Just so you know, I'm for getting drivers weight in P included too.

 

Signed,

JB, Another fat guy.

 

 

 

jsi:

Could someone refresh me on what is the reason min weights in Prepared are without drivers? Is there some long time history behind this? I mean in just about every SCCA road racing class, the min weights are with drivers. In Solo2 Mod classes they're with drivers. Why not in P?

I allways found this strange, that in a class that has all kinds of weight penalties for mechanical allowances, excesses etc. a driver could in effect be penalized 100lbs+ for being overweight (say a 260lbs driver vs. a 160lbs one). That is HUUGE in say a 1500lbs EP car.

And yes, i'm 260lbs and i am beefed with this rule.

Sorry if i'm bringing up an old topic... Couldnt find anything in archives on here, so maybe it's time for this to be discussed again?

The weighing with driver is a recent deal in D/E Mod. We just ballast up for the lightest driver and leave it alone. There is NO problem.

Del Long

 

 

 

 

This topic comes up a few times every year.  Even the SMAC tried to get the new weight formula to be with driver.  However, it gets tossed for two reasons EVERY TIME.  Nobody is asking for it and too hard to monitor with two driver cars.

Recently an effort has been made to figure out how to weigh cars immediately after their runs (i.e. drive straight to the scales) but it lost momentum.

I know plenty of people are ready to fight for weighing with drivers in Prepared and SM, so where are the letters?

Write letters... that is how you control the future of the club

-Chris (unofficially 100% for weighting with drivers)

 

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EP 82 - 1987 Toyota Corolla GTS
RMDiv. SEB

epcrx:

 it gets tossed for two reasons EVERY TIME.  Nobody is asking for it and too hard to monitor with two driver cars.

So basically we got one real reason, hard to monitor two driver cars. It would be a logistical nightmare to weigh cars after the first driver did all his runs and the co-driver still had the last run remaining to do. Then how do you know the right amount of ballast was there for all the runs? It could even be an honest mistake between runs. Or a super easy opportunity for cheating for those so inclined.

The only logical solution to this problem is to disallow ballast adjustments on the grid. The car has to be at  or above min weight for both drivers before coming to grid. Hmmm, much like it is today...

IMO, that would be a decent compromise. The heavy drivers with very light co-drivers still get shafted, but at least they have a choice: find a fatter co-driver. Where as now ALL heavys get shafted.

I have too many excuses for getting smoked already. Let's get rid of this one...

jsi:

And yes, i'm 260lbs and i am beefed with this rule.

Nice line! 

Seriously, though, this is just another rules allowance that you are not taking advantage of.  Its no different than running smaller-than-allowed tires.  Please don't take this the wrong way, but essentially you are choosing not to take advantage of the existing allowance.  You could run your car at a significantly lower weight but you choose not to do the work necessary to take advantage of the situation.

I have seen a number of drivers lately who have done the work to get themselves into superb shape for national level competition.  Kudos to them for doing so, and they reep the benefits not just in racing, but also longer term in life.

Sure, its hard work, but so is building a top-notch car, and learning to drive it well.  And if you aren't yet at the "top-notch" point in either department, then 100lbs on your car is not going to change things much in the results.  Make the effort, do the work!

Good luck!

--Andy

PS: Yes, I am a lightweight myself.  But I do the work daily to stay that way.

 

jsi:

epcrx:

 it gets tossed for two reasons EVERY TIME.  Nobody is asking for it and too hard to monitor with two driver cars.

So basically we got one real reason, hard to monitor two driver cars. It would be a logistical nightmare to weigh cars after the first driver did all his runs and the co-driver still had the last run remaining to do. Then how do you know the right amount of ballast was there for all the runs? It could even be an honest mistake between runs. Or a super easy opportunity for cheating for those so inclined.

The only logical solution to this problem is to disallow ballast adjustments on the grid. The car has to be at  or above min weight for both drivers before coming to grid. Hmmm, much like it is today...

IMO, that would be a decent compromise. The heavy drivers with very light co-drivers still get shafted, but at least they have a choice: find a fatter co-driver. Where as now ALL heavys get shafted.

I have too many excuses for getting smoked already. Let's get rid of this one...

just put the second driver in a different heat,, works in chicago

dglong:

The weighing with driver is a recent deal in D/E Mod. We just ballast up for the lightest driver and leave it alone. There is NO problem.

Del Long

<>

Working in impound at the Wendover Pro I promise that it was no harder to weigh the Mod classes than the Prepared classes.  They have to be ballasted for the lighted driver.  I've got no dog in this fight but a rule change here seems logical to me.

Andy Hollis:

Seriously, though, this is just another rules allowance that you are not taking advantage of.  Its no different than running smaller-than-allowed tires.  Please don't take this the wrong way, but essentially you are choosing not to take advantage of the existing allowance.  You could run your car at a significantly lower weight but you choose not to do the work necessary to take advantage of the situation.

I have seen a number of drivers lately who have done the work to get themselves into superb shape for national level competition.  Kudos to them for doing so, and they reep the benefits not just in racing, but also longer term in life.

Sure, its hard work, but so is building a top-notch car, and learning to drive it well.  And if you aren't yet at the "top-notch" point in either department, then 100lbs on your car is not going to change things much in the results.  Make the effort, do the work!

Good luck!

--Andy

PS: Yes, I am a lightweight myself.  But I do the work daily to stay that way.

 

I agree with this sentiment to a certain extent, but there are some folks who are inherently at an advantage in the weight department.  A guy who is 5'3' is going to have a serious weight advantage over a guy who is 6'6", even if both are in top notch physical condition. And, remember that muscle weighs more than fat so it could be argued that the best "shape" for a driver would be anorexic.

Since we're weighing cars anyway, and this hasn't been a problem in the Mod classes, I say it's a logical progression.

Jonathan Roberts